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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio now here's

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Jean Steinberg this is our last show for

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2017 of the para cast some people might

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wish it was our last show forever but

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that's not gonna happen we're going to

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be observing our 12th anniversary in

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February they said it couldn't be done

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but it was but we've assembled with me

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and Chris Loren Coleman we're talk about

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his book in just a few moments his

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newest book called Mothman evil

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incarnate and it's subtitled the

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unauthorized companion to the Mothman

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Prophecies that's a companion if it was

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a sequel I guess we call it what Loren

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after the Mothman or more prophecies who

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know or prophecies to know it would be

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caterpillar man wouldn't it well they

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have to be zombie something because if

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John keel did it since he's dead that

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would open up a whole new can of worms

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the Mothman dead right like walking to

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earth before gets its flying death I

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wanted to bring up to our listeners

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something we started this conversation

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and I after the power cast which is the

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premium podcast that comes with

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subscriptions to the power cast Plus and

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you got a plus doff the power cast not

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come for more information but we talked

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about the recent revelation starting

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with the New York Times article that at

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the behest of former Senate Majority

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Leader Harry Reid they allocated 22

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million dollars for a UFO program and I

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guess where as they say a little

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skeptical of what that's gonna do there

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was an article also from Nick Redfern in

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his blog basically saying he didn't

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expect much of anything and bear in mind

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here what's going on we have a u.s.

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senator a powerful US senator this is

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when the Senate Majority was in the

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Democratic Party powerful US Senator

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interested in UFOs and he's a friend of

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a billionaire by the name of Robert

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Bigelow we all know about that character

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right and we know because he said so on

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60 minutes that he believes UFOs are

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real and that they're alien so I wonder

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here whether this whole thing was set up

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to mollify Senator Reid and also to give

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some money to Bigelow because that's

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what happened you know they gave him the

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money to do the research and what

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happens within a year or so after that

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Bigelow goes to MUFON offering them

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money to do some research that didn't

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work out so well but what we've learned

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now is that money didn't come from

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Bigelow's pocket it came from the US

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government oh well did Bigelow really

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need 22 million dollars to do UFO

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research of course not just an

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observation Chris yeah well I guess

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billionaires they never have enough

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money that's why they're billionaires

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but we don't want to get into politics

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but that's why they cut taxes because

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they need more money you know I've been

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warning people since the whole thing

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broke that you know everybody's all gaga

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and they think that this is the you know

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the beginning of the big the big D

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disclosure and I keep her mind and I'm

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look these people have been lying to us

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for seventy years what makes you think

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they're gonna be telling us the truth

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now I mean you know I just it's just

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very hard for me to believe that people

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will just suddenly go into this

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convenient complete denial surrounding

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you know how the subs been treated

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within the government and it just it's

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just it to me is downwind to the fish

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market like I explained last week on the

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show and I I don't really see this as

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being anything more than a bunch of

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grandstanding and you know sure the

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government's admitting this and the

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government's admitting that but it's

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this whole thing there's we there's a

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lot of smoke but there's not much fire

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and the thing to bear in mind to the

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if the US government has already had the

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opportunity to look at alien craft

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crashed spaceships like Roswell or other

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places certainly not Aztec and alien

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bodies they've had all this technology

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they've been getting gun camera photos

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of UFOs and other things for 70 years

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why would a new investigation in the

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2000s make a difference if the

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government has something to disclose how

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would this impact that if they knew all

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this stuff about UFOs that they

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allegedly know why do they need to spend

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another twenty two million dollars on

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the subject look just to mollify a u.s.

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senator it goes back to that if I can

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make a comment any time but what

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interests me about this is the broader

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framework I think it's the old boys

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network I think they wanted to spend

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some money help out a friend

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and of course Bigelow is connected to

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Skywalker Ranch Bigelow has had some

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Bigfoot sightings even so there's and

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then you get the whole remote viewing

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people and john alexander and i think

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there's a whole kettle of fish here

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maybe it does smell downriver but it

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could be what really occurred was that

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they got caught a little bit but I do

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think that the Big D is more about

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disinformation and denial than it is

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disclosure yeah different D word and 22

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million dollars it sounds like a lot to

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me it's not but it's not to the

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government it's not in the military it's

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not to Bigelow so it's all this is kind

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of laughable but it is interesting that

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it comes right back to Las Vegas and

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there's more going on in Las Vegas than

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we know about you know from multiple

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shootings to the secret behind

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Bladerunner 2049 you know lots of things

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point back to Las Vegas and this this

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whole

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thing is Las Vegas that written all over

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it way man wait a minute Blade Runner

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2049 what about it well if you haven't

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seen the movie I don't like spoilers but

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Las Vegas is part of it how about half a

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spoiler I don't think I'll be seeing the

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movie for a little while until it's free

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on cable TV

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well Las Vegas turns out to be the place

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where a major nuclear attack occurs it's

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where you know Harrison Ford is holed up

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and a lot of things that everybody

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wonders what was happening in the first

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Blade Runner and it you know everybody

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fantasizes about going off to Montana or

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something

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well people went to Las Vegas it's just

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it's pretty bizarre and the movie came

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out you know it was already in

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production it was already going to be

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shown then it comes out the same week

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that there was a massive shooting and in

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Las Vegas there's just a lot of strange

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things there yeah it kind of reminds me

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of the China Syndrome coming out a week

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after Three Mile Island right now I'm

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just going to look here at Blade Runner

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Blade Runner didn't do so well I mean

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for movies in general it did decent it

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grossed 258 million dollars Blade Runner

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2049 but the production budget was 150

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million and in movie parlance you've got

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to gross twice the budget minimum Plus

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allow for promotion costs to show a

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profit so all-in-all this movie probably

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lost a hundred million dollars but it's

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not over the future will show that it's

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a classic in terms of the Prometheus

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alien universe that all of these films

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live in so it's very very predictive

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kind of film and it'll have a cult

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following you'll see yeah plus plus did

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they have in fact in worldwide earnings

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and that includes worldwide box-office

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global box office oh well the DVD is

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coming out this next week so

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yeah just went digital this week yeah

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okay well I'll wait till we're past that

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till it's down to the 99-cent rentals

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okay they do have 99-cent rentals

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I believe you right way gets the 99

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cents I'll do it I won't do it for $5.99

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although they made things a little bit

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better now if you want to do a digital

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download it used to be you had to watch

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the movie completely started within 30

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days but once you start it you had 24

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hours before it self-destructed they

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change that to 48 hours so we have some

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measure of fairness but let's get on

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here I don't know if this has a Las

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Vegas connection or not the book is

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Mothman evil incarnate Loren Coleman is

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here with Jeana and Chris you're in the

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pirgos we also have swag you know we

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have all these exclusive para cast

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things that you can buy we've got like I

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guess 60 or so different items and

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entails t-shirts sleeves for notebook

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computers iPad cases mouse pads the para

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cast jumbo tote bag all sorts of

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t-shirts and jackets and stuff like that

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for men and women we have a para cast

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aluminum water bottle all the stuff you

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go to store . ^ cast calm stored dot the

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para cast calm what makes special is

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that the items are the best quality of

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great t-shirts fabrics and they have our

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official logo on them

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that's what makes them special multiple

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sizes and colors we even have stuff for

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children stuff for women's stuff for men

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we have all sorts of sizes like small up

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2x large a lot of good stuff that's the

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swag from the power cast you go to

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steward dot ^ cast calm stop by and take

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a shopping tour attention type 2

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diabetics if you or a loved one has

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taken invokana invoke comet or invoke um

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@xr or other inhibitors for type 2

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diabetes and suffered amputation of the

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toes feet or legs you may be entitled to

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substantial financial compensation

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the FDA has warned that

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volcana info comment or in Bochum @xr

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and other inhibitors for type 2 diabetes

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caused an increased role in amputations

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of the toes feet and legs if you or a

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loved one has taken invokana info

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comment or in Bochum @xr our other

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inhibitors for type 2 diabetes and

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suffered amputation of the toes feet or

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legs you may be entitled to substantial

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financial compensation act now time is

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limited to file a claim for a free

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consultation and free information call

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injury helpdesk at 847-537-7000 again

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847 576 a seven call now this is an

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advertisement paint an attorney

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spokesperson WWWE interior constable for

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the separate eyes my principal office

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las vegas nevada the answer to being in

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control of your own health care is

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freedom from insurance become part of a

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group of self-pay patients that come

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together to share in each other's

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amounts begin at 107 dollars a month and

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347 for families choose from three

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health sharing programs holistic

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treatments may be eligible for sharing

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see guidelines discount programs

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available for dental vision and pharmacy

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go to Weber the on call org

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that's Liberty on call org does the

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current world crisis in North Korea or

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our domestic crisis right here in

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America concern you well I know it

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concerns me my friends over at legacy

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294
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[Music]

295
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:36,050
why we get killed like this house not

296
00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:37,370
here got caught drinking beer in the

297
00:13:41,260 --> 00:13:39,710
park a couple of nights ago really yeah

298
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:41,270
zero tolerance he's out for the season

299
00:13:46,750 --> 00:13:44,000
harsh hey he knew not to drink with me

300
00:13:48,070 --> 00:13:46,760
they cleared all of our kids right oh no

301
00:13:49,570 --> 00:13:48,080
not really though

302
00:13:51,580 --> 00:13:49,580
if we don't tell them what we expect and

303
00:13:56,020 --> 00:13:51,590
why edition drank how are they gonna

304
00:13:56,030 --> 00:14:00,470
[Music]

305
00:14:05,460 --> 00:14:03,450
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

306
00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:05,470
comment or question about the para cast

307
00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:09,400
sent it to news at the para cast com

308
00:14:14,850 --> 00:14:12,910
that's news at the para cast calm and

309
00:14:18,030 --> 00:14:14,860
don't forget to visit our famous para

310
00:14:23,190 --> 00:14:18,040
cast community forums at forum dot the

311
00:14:27,540 --> 00:14:23,200
para cast calm chris is presenting not

312
00:14:28,260 --> 00:14:27,550
his voice for Bigfoot but his voice for

313
00:14:32,940 --> 00:14:28,270
Mothman

314
00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:32,950
so Loren Coleman why'd you decide to do

315
00:14:40,260 --> 00:14:36,310
this book well as you may recall I did a

316
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:40,270
book in 2002 what what happened in 2001

317
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:42,370
I was you know I've been a friend of

318
00:14:49,170 --> 00:14:45,370
John keels for a long time since the 60s

319
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:49,180
the late 60s and was very involved in

320
00:14:55,230 --> 00:14:51,730
helping him with different kinds of

321
00:14:58,650 --> 00:14:55,240
cryptogenic cryptozoological and Bigfoot

322
00:15:02,160 --> 00:14:58,660
phenomena for his book strange creatures

323
00:15:03,540 --> 00:15:02,170
which came out in 1970 and in 1970 he

324
00:15:06,540 --> 00:15:03,550
put a little chapter in there about

325
00:15:08,940 --> 00:15:06,550
Mothman and I knew about Mothman I'd

326
00:15:11,820 --> 00:15:08,950
been interviewing people been traveling

327
00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:11,830
there been talking to people but of

328
00:15:18,650 --> 00:15:14,590
course wasn't as prominent as John keel

329
00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:18,660
well in 2001 I was writing a book about

330
00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:20,790
Mothman because I thought I had

331
00:15:25,740 --> 00:15:23,710
something to contribute and all of a

332
00:15:28,740 --> 00:15:25,750
sudden I get a call from Sony Screen

333
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:28,750
Gems and they said we hear you're doing

334
00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:32,850
a book on Mothman could you speed it up

335
00:15:39,930 --> 00:15:37,030
and I said what you know I write on my

336
00:15:41,550 --> 00:15:39,940
own pace they said no no no you don't

337
00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:41,560
understand we don't want to pressure you

338
00:15:47,730 --> 00:15:44,230
but we have a movie coming out next year

339
00:15:50,070 --> 00:15:47,740
and we'd like to have your book come out

340
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:50,080
at the same time the movie comes out

341
00:15:56,370 --> 00:15:53,440
because the whole idea of our book of

342
00:16:00,030 --> 00:15:56,380
our movie it's based on John keels book

343
00:16:02,580 --> 00:16:00,040
but his book came out in 75 and we kind

344
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:02,590
of like to have a new book out that

345
00:16:10,010 --> 00:16:06,610
really reinforced the fact of our

346
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:10,020
tagline which is based on a true story

347
00:16:13,950 --> 00:16:11,890
so I said

348
00:16:16,860 --> 00:16:13,960
I'll see what I can do and I actually

349
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:16,870
was able to get the book done it was

350
00:16:22,350 --> 00:16:20,170
published by pair of you and then they

351
00:16:24,690 --> 00:16:22,360
called me up later we kept talking and

352
00:16:28,890 --> 00:16:24,700
they wanted me to they flew me out to

353
00:16:30,630 --> 00:16:28,900
California to do a news conference with

354
00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:30,640
all these science fiction magazines and

355
00:16:35,670 --> 00:16:32,800
they I said well you know I'd like to

356
00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:35,680
bring my kids my kids were like middle

357
00:16:39,570 --> 00:16:37,840
school kind of age and they sure come on

358
00:16:43,140 --> 00:16:39,580
here's tickets you know here's a car

359
00:16:45,570 --> 00:16:43,150
here's a motel you know in Beverly Hills

360
00:16:47,850 --> 00:16:45,580
so of course I'm gonna do all of this I

361
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:47,860
had great fun and then they said you

362
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:52,090
know by the way John keel is blind he

363
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:54,970
had a cataract operation they left

364
00:16:59,850 --> 00:16:57,730
staples in his eyes and he can't do a

365
00:17:04,650 --> 00:16:59,860
promotion would you do the promotion for

366
00:17:07,290 --> 00:17:04,660
the movie and promote your book too so I

367
00:17:11,670 --> 00:17:07,300
said sure so when the movie came out in

368
00:17:15,780 --> 00:17:11,680
January I actually did 400 radio

369
00:17:19,470 --> 00:17:15,790
interviews in one month I I remember one

370
00:17:22,260 --> 00:17:19,480
day I was on like seven eight

371
00:17:24,540 --> 00:17:22,270
radio shows one after another as well as

372
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:24,550
all the big ones like para cast I'm sure

373
00:17:29,490 --> 00:17:26,890
but I was back back in those days I was

374
00:17:31,710 --> 00:17:29,500
on there talking about Mothman so I

375
00:17:34,290 --> 00:17:31,720
wrote the book it was a pretty basic

376
00:17:37,860 --> 00:17:34,300
book about Mothman but I called it

377
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:37,870
Mothman and other curious encounters so

378
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:40,480
I did information on flatwoods monster

379
00:17:47,070 --> 00:17:44,410
on the spawn of Keo you know different

380
00:17:48,270 --> 00:17:47,080
kind of cryptids and winged weirdies and

381
00:17:51,030 --> 00:17:48,280
different things like that that I'd

382
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:51,040
written about in fate magazine and had

383
00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:53,410
kind of expanded all those chapters and

384
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:55,750
and made it into you know a nice little

385
00:18:00,060 --> 00:17:58,480
book and then the movie you know it was

386
00:18:03,510 --> 00:18:00,070
a very successful kind of a

387
00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:03,520
psychological thriller was done by mark

388
00:18:10,620 --> 00:18:07,620
pellington who had previously done MTV

389
00:18:13,620 --> 00:18:10,630
videos but also he'd done Arlington Road

390
00:18:16,830 --> 00:18:13,630
so he had a very conspiratorial mind

391
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:16,840
about him and he wasn't interest in the

392
00:18:23,540 --> 00:18:21,130
UFO part of the Mothman book he was only

393
00:18:25,650 --> 00:18:23,550
interested in the Mothman and kind of

394
00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:25,660
psychological thriller so on the

395
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:27,820
radio shows and on afterwards I started

396
00:18:33,330 --> 00:18:30,880
noticing there was all this bad luck in

397
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:33,340
the wake of Mothman you know sometimes

398
00:18:37,890 --> 00:18:36,010
after I get off a radio show the light

399
00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:37,900
bulbs would burst in my house door

400
00:18:43,710 --> 00:18:40,480
people would talk about you know

401
00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:43,720
somebody dying or and so I started

402
00:18:48,330 --> 00:18:46,510
collecting names of individuals

403
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:48,340
connected to moth been either thy

404
00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:52,330
witnesses or were in the movie and I

405
00:18:58,350 --> 00:18:55,900
knew that from poltergeist and other

406
00:19:01,650 --> 00:18:58,360
movies like Exorcist it was always this

407
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:01,660
business about movie curses but like

408
00:19:05,820 --> 00:19:03,370
with poltergeists no more than six

409
00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:05,830
people died that were connected to the

410
00:19:11,610 --> 00:19:07,990
movie well I started collecting these

411
00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:11,620
names and within a year - I had 80 names

412
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:14,260
of people connected to the Mothman movie

413
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:16,570
and to the Mothman incidents that had

414
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:20,650
died some old age but some were suicide

415
00:19:27,180 --> 00:19:23,170
some of them were young like actually

416
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:27,190
Mark pelicans wife within two years

417
00:19:32,130 --> 00:19:28,690
after the movie came out she

418
00:19:34,740 --> 00:19:32,140
mysteriously got sick and died after a

419
00:19:38,190 --> 00:19:34,750
four-month illness that has never quite

420
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:38,200
been explained and she was 42 so you

421
00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:39,910
know one thing led to another and I said

422
00:19:42,180 --> 00:19:41,560
I gotta write another book gotta write

423
00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:42,190
another book

424
00:19:46,530 --> 00:19:43,950
I thought about writing that book in

425
00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:46,540
2006 and then all my bad luck started

426
00:19:51,030 --> 00:19:47,110
happening

427
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:51,040
lust operations younger brother died my

428
00:19:57,930 --> 00:19:54,400
mother died altogether I it took me

429
00:20:00,450 --> 00:19:57,940
until 2017 to write this book but it's

430
00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:00,460
it's really about the bad luck part of

431
00:20:03,660 --> 00:20:01,510
Mothman

432
00:20:05,190 --> 00:20:03,670
well the biggest example I think of bad

433
00:20:08,490 --> 00:20:05,200
luck is something you've already

434
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:08,500
mentioned at the beginning John keels

435
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:12,720
life wasn't too great for him after that

436
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:16,450
no it wasn't he had lots of bad luck and

437
00:20:23,010 --> 00:20:20,050
even reportedly got $80,000 for the

438
00:20:25,530 --> 00:20:23,020
movie and it didn't change his life at

439
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:25,540
all he just tried to catch up on his

440
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:29,410
debts and never really changed as far as

441
00:20:35,370 --> 00:20:32,530
he was still poor his health went

442
00:20:38,190 --> 00:20:35,380
downhill there was false rumors about

443
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:38,200
him dying several times he was estranged

444
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:38,970
from

445
00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:41,520
his family and towards the end as I

446
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:43,830
mentioned in the book he started writing

447
00:20:49,340 --> 00:20:46,530
he wrote actually and afterward to the

448
00:20:52,159 --> 00:20:49,350
the new addition the tour edition of the

449
00:20:55,730 --> 00:20:52,169
Mothman Prophecies and he just ravaged

450
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:55,740
all his old friends said things like his

451
00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:58,559
friends and stole his material and he

452
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:00,720
was just crusty as I kiannmac I think we

453
00:21:06,399 --> 00:21:03,450
all still love John keel but we knew

454
00:21:09,230 --> 00:21:06,409
that dementia bad luck

455
00:21:12,350 --> 00:21:09,240
Mothman cursed just made him into

456
00:21:14,299 --> 00:21:12,360
something none of us recognized I know

457
00:21:18,380 --> 00:21:14,309
that we tried to get him on the power

458
00:21:20,330 --> 00:21:18,390
cast I know our former co-host it's got

459
00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:20,340
his phone number from Tim Beck Lee I

460
00:21:26,090 --> 00:21:22,830
don't think he'll now kill is pretty

461
00:21:30,350 --> 00:21:26,100
ornery around this time the last couple

462
00:21:34,279 --> 00:21:30,360
of years of his life and he just chewed

463
00:21:37,850 --> 00:21:34,289
out my poor co-host and probably chewed

464
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:37,860
out Beckley for daring to give out that

465
00:21:44,899 --> 00:21:40,770
phone number but he isn't the only UFO

466
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:44,909
researcher prominence who died in shall

467
00:21:51,049 --> 00:21:47,130
we say surroundings where they were

468
00:21:52,370 --> 00:21:51,059
really really poor Richard Hall also had

469
00:21:55,730 --> 00:21:52,380
similar problems and he was never

470
00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:55,740
involved with Mothman yeah well I mean

471
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:58,320
people there are a lot of bad luck

472
00:22:02,299 --> 00:22:00,960
that's connected with being in this

473
00:22:05,450 --> 00:22:02,309
field because none of us are really

474
00:22:09,049 --> 00:22:05,460
after money we have a passion about the

475
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:09,059
field there are of course those few that

476
00:22:14,990 --> 00:22:12,330
try to go after the money but in general

477
00:22:19,370 --> 00:22:15,000
what I tried to do is look at the thread

478
00:22:22,370 --> 00:22:19,380
of Mothman I like Jim Keith we all know

479
00:22:25,130 --> 00:22:22,380
four black helicopters and and a lot of

480
00:22:28,159 --> 00:22:25,140
other work he did he also had a major

481
00:22:31,130 --> 00:22:28,169
theory that Mothman was nothing but a

482
00:22:32,870 --> 00:22:31,140
CIA experiment in Point Pleasant West

483
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:32,880
Virginian which everybody was being

484
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:36,450
given LSD let's explore that in our next

485
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:39,360
segment Loren Coleman gene and Chris

486
00:22:57,230 --> 00:22:53,430
thank you for listening to GCN

487
00:23:00,029 --> 00:22:57,240
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539
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leaping patterns blood sugar levels and

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had a sense of well-being overall

541
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thousands of people's lives and you

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[Music]

591
00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:10,350
her chest

592
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:24,240
okay Loren Coleman we're talking about

593
00:27:31,050 --> 00:27:26,890
the person who suggests that Mothman was

594
00:27:34,050 --> 00:27:31,060
an LSD experiment but I just wonder here

595
00:27:36,750 --> 00:27:34,060
whether any other events if that was

596
00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:36,760
true were actually experiments rather

597
00:27:42,180 --> 00:27:39,910
than real paranormal things well we

598
00:27:45,540 --> 00:27:42,190
don't know do we obviously you've got

599
00:27:47,820 --> 00:27:45,550
different things coming out of MKULTRA

600
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:47,830
that makes you think that some

601
00:27:52,980 --> 00:27:51,130
experimentation was going on but not to

602
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:52,990
be distracted from the story I want to

603
00:27:59,850 --> 00:27:55,690
tell you is Jim Keith the guy that had

604
00:28:04,620 --> 00:27:59,860
that theory appeared at Burning Man fell

605
00:28:07,140 --> 00:28:04,630
off the stage there and was taken to a

606
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:07,150
hospital and they were doing some kind

607
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:09,850
of repair on his knee and he died on the

608
00:28:15,930 --> 00:28:13,330
operating table so it just was one of

609
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:15,940
those names and people that I actually

610
00:28:22,050 --> 00:28:19,090
knew I had to add to the list I don't

611
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:22,060
know if there's LSD experiments going on

612
00:28:28,110 --> 00:28:24,730
and people were hallucinating monsters

613
00:28:31,940 --> 00:28:28,120
here and I don't think so right but I'm

614
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:31,950
saying that you confront something as

615
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:35,200
incredible as Mothman people are going

616
00:28:39,420 --> 00:28:37,450
to come up with their own theories some

617
00:28:42,180 --> 00:28:39,430
of them are farther out than thinking

618
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:42,190
that Mothman may be a giant owl that's

619
00:28:49,290 --> 00:28:46,210
been undiscovered or some kind of entity

620
00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:49,300
from a UFO I mean there's there's as

621
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:51,310
many theories as there are people

622
00:28:58,050 --> 00:28:53,890
connected with Mothman I just try to

623
00:29:01,020 --> 00:28:58,060
look at the facts ma'am and mister and

624
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:01,030
just try to like Charles for it write

625
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:03,250
the data down and the data says to me

626
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:05,410
that some incredible things are going on

627
00:29:11,790 --> 00:29:08,110
with the people with the psychology the

628
00:29:14,940 --> 00:29:11,800
sociology all connected to Mothman have

629
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:14,950
we learned much newer different since

630
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:17,170
the original Mothman Prophecies was

631
00:29:21,690 --> 00:29:19,330
written as obviously you're looking at

632
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:21,700
the after-effects but have we learned

633
00:29:26,370 --> 00:29:23,650
much about the source of the phenomenon

634
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:26,380
not exactly I mean I think that if

635
00:29:29,970 --> 00:29:26,770
you're

636
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:29,980
saying has there been any theories or

637
00:29:37,470 --> 00:29:33,610
any ideas that have explained moth been

638
00:29:40,590 --> 00:29:37,480
no not really people have noticed things

639
00:29:44,580 --> 00:29:40,600
like what I call the Mothman math which

640
00:29:50,330 --> 00:29:44,590
nicely syncs with the number 13 you know

641
00:29:55,380 --> 00:29:50,340
was the Mothman was seen in November 15

642
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:55,390
1966 exactly 13 months later when LBJ

643
00:30:01,770 --> 00:29:58,210
turns on the White House Christmas tree

644
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:01,780
lights the bridge collapse and 46 people

645
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:05,170
are killed when they fall into the water

646
00:30:11,340 --> 00:30:08,170
and they they actually found the cause

647
00:30:16,380 --> 00:30:11,350
of that bridge collapsing it was I bar

648
00:30:19,140 --> 00:30:16,390
13 in the bridge and then Mary hyre who

649
00:30:23,130 --> 00:30:19,150
was John keels friend and the reporter

650
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:23,140
that was a most connected she died 2

651
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:27,250
times 13 26 months later at the age of

652
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:31,410
52 of a mysterious ailment so the number

653
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:34,960
13 keeps coming up over and over again

654
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:38,710
and I actually write somewhat about that

655
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:40,330
in the book and I've blogged about it

656
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:42,970
since then so there's all of these

657
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:45,730
things that happened after the bridge

658
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:48,370
collapsed when Mothman was supposed to

659
00:30:53,460 --> 00:30:51,760
have disappeared including one of them

660
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:53,470
if you consider the bridge collapse in

661
00:31:00,299 --> 00:30:56,890
67 and keel didn't write the book until

662
00:31:02,750 --> 00:31:00,309
75 as I mentioned in the book I do do a

663
00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:02,760
whole chapter looking at Point Pleasant

664
00:31:09,330 --> 00:31:05,679
Point Pleasant really forgot about

665
00:31:13,140 --> 00:31:09,340
Mothman until the movie came out in 2002

666
00:31:15,510 --> 00:31:13,150
it took a lot of pushing for Point

667
00:31:18,180 --> 00:31:15,520
Pleasant to really get to the stage

668
00:31:20,730 --> 00:31:18,190
where they became sort of the Mothman

669
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:20,740
version of Roswell because they were

670
00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:22,720
ignoring the creature what was it was

671
00:31:27,180 --> 00:31:24,910
quite a tragedy it's not and it's not

672
00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:27,190
it's quite understandable that a town

673
00:31:30,380 --> 00:31:28,750
would really not want to become known

674
00:31:32,669 --> 00:31:30,390
for such a tragedy

675
00:31:35,130 --> 00:31:32,679
let's see why the recent pushback on

676
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:35,140
that well a push back on the bridge

677
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:38,320
collapsed but the bridge really wasn't

678
00:31:43,810 --> 00:31:40,370
connected to Mothman until

679
00:31:46,390 --> 00:31:43,820
he'll did that in 75 there was lots of

680
00:31:48,340 --> 00:31:46,400
people that would be willing to talk

681
00:31:51,730 --> 00:31:48,350
about Mothman but because of this

682
00:31:55,799 --> 00:31:51,740
depressive mourning that they continued

683
00:31:58,330 --> 00:31:55,809
on a city that was up to 6,000 people

684
00:32:00,640 --> 00:31:58,340
started going to four thousand two

685
00:32:03,850 --> 00:32:00,650
thousand you know that the population

686
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:03,860
dropped the downtown became a ghost town

687
00:32:10,299 --> 00:32:07,130
then in 2002-2003 it all turned around

688
00:32:12,940 --> 00:32:10,309
they could actually celebrate Mothman as

689
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:12,950
opposed to just be depressed and

690
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:14,510
suicidal about the Silver Bridge

691
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:17,210
collapsing what was that bridge ever

692
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:20,450
rebuilt it was a little bit down the way

693
00:32:27,460 --> 00:32:25,130
and they once again painted it silver so

694
00:32:30,250 --> 00:32:27,470
some local people actually call it the

695
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:30,260
Silver Bridge what was it called before

696
00:32:35,769 --> 00:32:34,159
then the Silver Bridge you see I looked

697
00:32:38,649 --> 00:32:35,779
it up since we're dealing with movie

698
00:32:43,299 --> 00:32:38,659
stats the Mothman Prophecies released

699
00:32:46,930 --> 00:32:43,309
January 25th 2002 production budget 32

700
00:32:48,940 --> 00:32:46,940
million dollars a modest one very modest

701
00:32:51,310 --> 00:32:48,950
I mean now they can't even do a single

702
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:51,320
special effect with 32 million that's 10

703
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:53,570
million more than they spent on this UFO

704
00:33:00,159 --> 00:32:56,890
project by the way the worldwide gross

705
00:33:04,510 --> 00:33:00,169
was 55 million which means this movie

706
00:33:05,980 --> 00:33:04,520
lost money okay remember the doubler it

707
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:05,990
would have had to have grossed at least

708
00:33:11,919 --> 00:33:09,890
64 million and then allow for special

709
00:33:13,690 --> 00:33:11,929
promotion in other words it would have

710
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:13,700
had to have grossed and we 75 to 80

711
00:33:20,260 --> 00:33:15,770
million minimum to at least break even

712
00:33:22,779 --> 00:33:20,270
for the production company instead it

713
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:22,789
lost money which most movie you by the

714
00:33:28,419 --> 00:33:25,570
way it's where you have these

715
00:33:30,340 --> 00:33:28,429
blockbuster films where they spend 300

716
00:33:33,460 --> 00:33:30,350
million and then they need another

717
00:33:35,529 --> 00:33:33,470
hundred million to cover promotional

718
00:33:39,220 --> 00:33:35,539
costs and then you end up with a movie

719
00:33:42,340 --> 00:33:39,230
like Justice League which so far is only

720
00:33:45,250 --> 00:33:42,350
gross 647 million which means it will

721
00:33:48,909 --> 00:33:45,260
probably lose somewhere between 50 and

722
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:48,919
100 million for Warner Brothers they're

723
00:33:53,950 --> 00:33:50,000
going to take it out of Ben Affleck's

724
00:33:54,250 --> 00:33:53,960
paycheck but one of the things with the

725
00:33:59,100 --> 00:33:54,260
moth

726
00:34:03,760 --> 00:33:59,110
and prophesies it became such a frequent

727
00:34:07,030 --> 00:34:03,770
replayed film on cable you know over and

728
00:34:09,490 --> 00:34:07,040
over again that actually caused people

729
00:34:12,460 --> 00:34:09,500
to know what Mothman was all again so

730
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,470
III would think that even though I

731
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:14,240
understand what you're saying about the

732
00:34:19,330 --> 00:34:16,970
theatrical release I think there must

733
00:34:21,700 --> 00:34:19,340
have been money in terms of selling it

734
00:34:24,669 --> 00:34:21,710
to cable selling at DVD and other other

735
00:34:28,090 --> 00:34:24,679
ways because it's a film that they still

736
00:34:30,850 --> 00:34:28,100
play frequently on TV well we have of

737
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:30,860
course DVD sales but remember also we

738
00:34:36,730 --> 00:34:34,970
have Hollywood based accounting so it

739
00:34:38,860 --> 00:34:36,740
doesn't matter how much money that movie

740
00:34:43,090 --> 00:34:38,870
made maybe at the end of the day it

741
00:34:45,970 --> 00:34:43,100
grossed 8090 million because of cable TV

742
00:34:48,700 --> 00:34:45,980
rights because of DVD whatever sales

743
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:48,710
maybe it grossed 80 90 million I assure

744
00:34:52,649 --> 00:34:50,570
you as far as the producers are

745
00:34:56,350 --> 00:34:52,659
concerned it was a money loser

746
00:34:59,500 --> 00:34:56,360
sure and they made money though they

747
00:35:01,390 --> 00:34:59,510
always do you know unless it loses a lot

748
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:01,400
I still think they'll make their money

749
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:04,010
back from justice Lee but what does that

750
00:35:10,420 --> 00:35:06,530
have to do with Mothman Prophecies but

751
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:10,430
I'm looking here you have in the back of

752
00:35:13,630 --> 00:35:12,320
the book a death list not just the

753
00:35:16,810 --> 00:35:13,640
people who died when the bridge

754
00:35:18,850 --> 00:35:16,820
collapsed but people who died after it

755
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:18,860
you mentioned some names of course we

756
00:35:23,950 --> 00:35:21,050
have mentioned John keel you also

757
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:23,960
mention gray Barker now gray Barker

758
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:28,490
wrote a book about the Silver Bridge yes

759
00:35:36,490 --> 00:35:31,610
he did he called it the Silver Bridge it

760
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:36,500
was part fiction part reality and I did

761
00:35:42,340 --> 00:35:37,130
not know that

762
00:35:46,210 --> 00:35:42,350
Oh yep and he was very involved with the

763
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:46,220
Silver Bridge and also the Mothman also

764
00:35:53,890 --> 00:35:48,530
flatwoods monster he of course was based

765
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:53,900
in West Virginia James Mosely really

766
00:36:00,280 --> 00:35:56,570
gave it away that he died from AIDS that

767
00:36:02,170 --> 00:36:00,290
grey Barker died from AIDS and so he had

768
00:36:06,340 --> 00:36:02,180
a whole secret life which of course in

769
00:36:08,140 --> 00:36:06,350
the 50s was very important to have James

770
00:36:11,260 --> 00:36:08,150
Mosely may have shared that

771
00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:11,270
great life but well of course it's

772
00:36:16,420 --> 00:36:13,369
something that we basically mostly knew

773
00:36:18,130 --> 00:36:16,430
his friends knew about that her life but

774
00:36:21,130 --> 00:36:18,140
yes that's why he died

775
00:36:22,569 --> 00:36:21,140
but it's easy just enough to say well

776
00:36:24,460 --> 00:36:22,579
maybe it had something to do with this

777
00:36:29,410 --> 00:36:24,470
but then he wrote that book in the 60s

778
00:36:31,059 --> 00:36:29,420
and he died what in 1980s right so how

779
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:31,069
we can make a connection who knows we're

780
00:36:37,140 --> 00:36:32,480
going to connect a lot of things here

781
00:36:40,539 --> 00:36:37,150
connecting dots or moth men with gene

782
00:36:47,849 --> 00:36:40,549
Chris and Lauren you're in the pure

783
00:36:47,859 --> 00:36:52,859
thank you for listening to GCN

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850
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869
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[Music]

882
00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:07,790
hi this is Bryce Abel I'm the producer

883
00:41:11,830 --> 00:41:09,920
of dark skies the co-author of AD after

884
00:41:13,980 --> 00:41:11,840
disclosure and you are listening to the

885
00:41:20,190 --> 00:41:13,990
para cast the gold standard of

886
00:41:25,499 --> 00:41:23,339
[Music]

887
00:41:28,029 --> 00:41:25,509
again we had an interesting conversation

888
00:41:30,130 --> 00:41:28,039
on last week's episode of after the

889
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:30,140
power cast about the Pentagon UFO

890
00:41:33,970 --> 00:41:32,450
investigation and whether it has any

891
00:41:34,599 --> 00:41:33,980
implications we're not going to cover it

892
00:41:37,269 --> 00:41:34,609
again

893
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:37,279
this week but maybe we'll refer to it at

894
00:41:40,839 --> 00:41:39,200
a future episode of the power castle

895
00:41:42,489 --> 00:41:40,849
bring some guests on who are more

896
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:42,499
knowledgeable about it and we get some

897
00:41:47,890 --> 00:41:45,440
observations in the meantime if you want

898
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:47,900
to listen to after the power cast

899
00:41:51,579 --> 00:41:49,609
becomes as part of the package that

900
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:51,589
includes a commercial free version of

901
00:41:56,289 --> 00:41:54,079
this show it's called power cast plus

902
00:42:01,089 --> 00:41:56,299
go-to plus dr. power cast calm to learn

903
00:42:04,210 --> 00:42:01,099
more plus dot the para cast com the book

904
00:42:06,759 --> 00:42:04,220
is Mothman evil incarnate

905
00:42:09,339 --> 00:42:06,769
the unauthorized companion to Mothman

906
00:42:11,589 --> 00:42:09,349
Prophecies you've got this long long

907
00:42:14,279 --> 00:42:11,599
death list we mentioned great Barker for

908
00:42:17,170 --> 00:42:14,289
obvious reasons his death was due to

909
00:42:18,700 --> 00:42:17,180
obviously a condition that hopefully is

910
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:18,710
not going to take too many more people

911
00:42:23,049 --> 00:42:20,930
we mentioned John keel we mentioned

912
00:42:25,150 --> 00:42:23,059
other people that I know and I

913
00:42:26,829 --> 00:42:25,160
recognized here I didn't think their

914
00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:26,839
death could possibly have anything to do

915
00:42:30,749 --> 00:42:28,910
with this and that was somebody that

916
00:42:34,269 --> 00:42:30,759
used to write for my magazine

917
00:42:37,059 --> 00:42:34,279
occasionally D Scott Rogo what happened

918
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:37,069
to him G Scott Roga was actually

919
00:42:43,950 --> 00:42:40,640
murdered another gay man who apparently

920
00:42:47,170 --> 00:42:43,960
got involved with someone that either

921
00:42:51,370 --> 00:42:47,180
was a friend that turned into an enemy

922
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:51,380
turned into a burglar a lot of confusing

923
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:54,079
things there D Scott Rogo was very

924
00:42:59,380 --> 00:42:56,960
interested in Mothman and had really

925
00:43:02,559 --> 00:42:59,390
talked to Jerry Clark and myself quite a

926
00:43:06,579 --> 00:43:02,569
bit about Mothman but he's not somebody

927
00:43:09,059 --> 00:43:06,589
of course his famous is Johnny keel or

928
00:43:12,819 --> 00:43:09,069
even one of the first people that

929
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:12,829
appears on the list right after the

930
00:43:20,890 --> 00:43:16,249
bridge collapsed relatively speaking is

931
00:43:22,930 --> 00:43:20,900
Fred freed who was a individual that a

932
00:43:26,890 --> 00:43:22,940
lot of people know from the NBC white

933
00:43:30,339 --> 00:43:26,900
paper he was working with keel to do a

934
00:43:32,170 --> 00:43:30,349
documentary on Mothman and the Silver

935
00:43:34,359 --> 00:43:32,180
Bridge on the UFOs

936
00:43:38,010 --> 00:43:34,369
being seen up and down the Ohio Valley

937
00:43:41,140 --> 00:43:38,020
and then he very mysteriously was found

938
00:43:45,660 --> 00:43:41,150
dead in his bed of undetermined cause

939
00:43:50,130 --> 00:43:45,670
which was changed later died suddenly

940
00:43:54,010 --> 00:43:50,140
apparent heart attack he died March 31st

941
00:43:58,180 --> 00:43:54,020
1974 which you know in the realm of

942
00:44:00,910 --> 00:43:58,190
things was not to kind of quickly after

943
00:44:06,099 --> 00:44:00,920
the bridge collapsed and he's one of the

944
00:44:08,710 --> 00:44:06,109
people that keel really was definitely

945
00:44:11,890 --> 00:44:08,720
associated with as well as Mary Hyde and

946
00:44:14,620 --> 00:44:11,900
Ivan T Sanderson Ivan T Sanderson of

947
00:44:16,750 --> 00:44:14,630
course is the cryptozoologist and he was

948
00:44:19,420 --> 00:44:16,760
sometimes interested in looking at UFOs

949
00:44:22,569 --> 00:44:19,430
as living creatures and he was a 40 and

950
00:44:25,299 --> 00:44:22,579
then he was the secret contact that

951
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:25,309
Keough was talking to all during the

952
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:29,690
Mothman incidents because he was trying

953
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:31,730
to check out was there a biological

954
00:44:37,180 --> 00:44:35,170
basis to the Mothman reports and

955
00:44:40,420 --> 00:44:37,190
Sanderson felt that it might have been

956
00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:40,430
some kind of unknown giant bird but they

957
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:44,000
also talked about UFOs and psychics and

958
00:44:50,260 --> 00:44:45,920
and other different things like that

959
00:44:55,089 --> 00:44:50,270
well it seems look at the ages of people

960
00:44:58,150 --> 00:44:55,099
now to think back then when I knew Ivan

961
00:45:01,960 --> 00:44:58,160
and I knew Ivan very deeply and closely

962
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:01,970
I thought wow he's old man he died of

963
00:45:08,430 --> 00:45:06,410
cancer and his age was 62 well I think

964
00:45:11,140 --> 00:45:08,440
about that nowadays and they think wow

965
00:45:14,829 --> 00:45:11,150
62 was relatively young

966
00:45:17,410 --> 00:45:14,839
I mean I'm 70 so I'm not using myself as

967
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:17,420
a yardstick but it does kind of freak me

968
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:20,450
out that a lot of times we look in here

969
00:45:27,250 --> 00:45:24,170
about somebody dying at 50 or 60 and we

970
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:27,260
think about them as old people but that

971
00:45:33,010 --> 00:45:29,770
has a lot to do with the fact we are

972
00:45:35,549 --> 00:45:33,020
being from you know 20 years old and

973
00:45:38,109 --> 00:45:35,559
we're saying these people were old but

974
00:45:40,809 --> 00:45:38,119
Sanderson kind of died quickly and that

975
00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:40,819
was a big shock to a lot of people and

976
00:45:45,790 --> 00:45:43,730
he was you know the first one on the

977
00:45:49,690 --> 00:45:45,800
list in 73

978
00:45:53,220 --> 00:45:49,700
now another person who died is someone

979
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:53,230
well-known as an artist for comic books

980
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:56,090
sci-fi pictures and he also did the

981
00:46:01,270 --> 00:45:58,720
illustration from othman prophecies

982
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:01,280
writen and you can pronounce his last

983
00:46:11,260 --> 00:46:06,880
name Frank Frazetta right Frank Frazetta

984
00:46:13,210 --> 00:46:11,270
he was a old man but he is kind of one

985
00:46:16,410 --> 00:46:13,220
of the hidden people another hidden

986
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:16,420
person behind the Mothman Prophecies

987
00:46:23,770 --> 00:46:19,730
Mothman Prophecies came about as a book

988
00:46:25,870 --> 00:46:23,780
of course in 75 and then High Times came

989
00:46:30,370 --> 00:46:25,880
along and they did an article about it

990
00:46:34,300 --> 00:46:30,380
and they used Frank's illustration for

991
00:46:37,330 --> 00:46:34,310
the cover well long came Ron Burns who

992
00:46:39,940 --> 00:46:37,340
actually died very mysteriously of food

993
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:39,950
poisoning and a Mexican restaurant rot

994
00:46:46,660 --> 00:46:41,930
in Atlanta he's on the list too

995
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:46,670
and he actually published the Mothman

996
00:46:54,460 --> 00:46:50,330
Prophecies in 1991 I believe it was and

997
00:46:58,030 --> 00:46:54,470
used that cover which became extremely

998
00:47:01,450 --> 00:46:58,040
famous and actually took over the

999
00:47:05,110 --> 00:47:01,460
popular image of what the Mothman looks

1000
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:05,120
like it looks like an insect it looks

1001
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:08,090
like you know a giant creature with

1002
00:47:12,010 --> 00:47:11,090
wings in which you can see butterfly

1003
00:47:17,410 --> 00:47:12,020
like wings

1004
00:47:19,740 --> 00:47:17,420
well that became the statue that is in

1005
00:47:25,330 --> 00:47:19,750
Point Pleasant West Virginia

1006
00:47:29,110 --> 00:47:25,340
anyway the illustrator died his wife

1007
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:29,120
died the executive producer of the movie

1008
00:47:36,310 --> 00:47:33,290
died the person that was in charge of

1009
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:36,320
some technical part of the movie has

1010
00:47:42,610 --> 00:47:39,410
died that the list just goes on and on

1011
00:47:46,900 --> 00:47:42,620
for me that all of these people seemed

1012
00:47:49,810 --> 00:47:46,910
to have pivotal roles in the movie being

1013
00:47:52,210 --> 00:47:49,820
produced or the Mothman cases now of

1014
00:47:54,010 --> 00:47:52,220
course I think we can always go

1015
00:47:56,740 --> 00:47:54,020
overboard and a lot of people have said

1016
00:47:59,380 --> 00:47:56,750
my list goes overboard but that's fine

1017
00:48:01,450 --> 00:47:59,390
you have to start somewhere

1018
00:48:05,650 --> 00:48:01,460
and you have to start connecting the

1019
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:05,660
dots and seeing what it is it's not so

1020
00:48:12,910 --> 00:48:09,050
much me that made it but if this feeling

1021
00:48:15,550 --> 00:48:12,920
of death and foreboding and doom is

1022
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:15,560
connected to Mothman I was trying to

1023
00:48:20,980 --> 00:48:18,170
come up with the evidence for why people

1024
00:48:23,290 --> 00:48:20,990
were talking about this over and over it

1025
00:48:25,450 --> 00:48:23,300
became more than a creature that was

1026
00:48:28,990 --> 00:48:25,460
seen in the skies or on the road or

1027
00:48:31,420 --> 00:48:29,000
flying about it had a lot to do with the

1028
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:31,430
people and their feelings about it and

1029
00:48:37,900 --> 00:48:33,770
the death that really seemed to surround

1030
00:48:39,130 --> 00:48:37,910
Mothman well the thing I would also do

1031
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:39,140
here when you look at something like

1032
00:48:42,550 --> 00:48:40,730
this and you want to be skeptical about

1033
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:42,560
because remember all these people didn't

1034
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:46,160
just die in a bunch within a few years

1035
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:49,610
after this event some lived on for years

1036
00:48:55,630 --> 00:48:51,890
died possibly of other conditions

1037
00:48:58,240 --> 00:48:55,640
obviously Frank Frazetta was 82 we know

1038
00:49:01,630 --> 00:48:58,250
what great Barker died from a condition

1039
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:01,640
that in the 80s especially really really

1040
00:49:07,420 --> 00:49:05,930
hurt the gay community a really

1041
00:49:09,550 --> 00:49:07,430
unfortunate and sad thing and I like

1042
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:09,560
great Barker he was really a basically a

1043
00:49:13,690 --> 00:49:11,930
good guy I mean he pulled a lot of funny

1044
00:49:16,260 --> 00:49:13,700
stunts but he was an amazingly talented

1045
00:49:20,530 --> 00:49:16,270
writer and I thought the Silver Bridge

1046
00:49:23,110 --> 00:49:20,540
was really a great piece of work you got

1047
00:49:25,150 --> 00:49:23,120
into a point where you were feeling the

1048
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:25,160
paranormal it wasn't just describing

1049
00:49:30,210 --> 00:49:27,010
events because of the fact that it was

1050
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:30,220
allegorical and fictional to some degree

1051
00:49:35,620 --> 00:49:32,570
but you also have to look at it this way

1052
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:35,630
if we're gonna do this should we then

1053
00:49:41,890 --> 00:49:38,720
take any major UFO event and see how

1054
00:49:43,510 --> 00:49:41,900
many people were impacted by it in some

1055
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:43,520
way in some connection and how many of

1056
00:49:52,510 --> 00:49:47,570
them died well are we reaching is what

1057
00:49:56,860 --> 00:49:52,520
I'm saying well I don't know as a for

1058
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:56,870
diem in general one of the mainstays of

1059
00:50:03,220 --> 00:49:58,640
being a for daeun is to look for

1060
00:50:06,430 --> 00:50:03,230
patterns look for patterns sort of in a

1061
00:50:10,510 --> 00:50:06,440
predictive way in a synchronistic away

1062
00:50:13,180 --> 00:50:10,520
in some fashion try to figure out the

1063
00:50:15,700 --> 00:50:13,190
universe and you have to do

1064
00:50:18,309 --> 00:50:15,710
skeptically you have to do it with a

1065
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:18,319
good sense of humor but you still have

1066
00:50:24,190 --> 00:50:21,440
to look and if you don't look you don't

1067
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:24,200
find anything and I think there's a lot

1068
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:27,650
there's a whole subset of people in your

1069
00:50:33,069 --> 00:50:30,770
follow G it's not my field and I want to

1070
00:50:35,500 --> 00:50:33,079
say that very clearly but there's a

1071
00:50:41,020 --> 00:50:35,510
whole subset of people that look for

1072
00:50:44,349 --> 00:50:41,030
deaths in ufology and Nick Redford for

1073
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:44,359
instance wrote a whole book called the

1074
00:50:51,059 --> 00:50:47,690
fatal some as fatal in that title the

1075
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:51,069
fatal and he looks at it that way

1076
00:50:59,200 --> 00:50:53,599
there's even looking at how many people

1077
00:51:02,020 --> 00:50:59,210
in ufology have died on June 24th so is

1078
00:51:04,539 --> 00:51:02,030
there a cause and effect here is it just

1079
00:51:08,410 --> 00:51:04,549
a coincidence is it the anniversary

1080
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:08,420
syndrome there's something going on is

1081
00:51:15,250 --> 00:51:10,490
it psychological is it something that

1082
00:51:18,609 --> 00:51:15,260
humans are totally making up perhaps but

1083
00:51:21,700 --> 00:51:18,619
I don't shy away from looking for these

1084
00:51:25,210 --> 00:51:21,710
patterns well certainly good to do it we

1085
00:51:27,549 --> 00:51:25,220
want to really see the impact of this

1086
00:51:30,069 --> 00:51:27,559
but just making that point we've got

1087
00:51:38,479 --> 00:51:30,079
Loren Coleman gene and Chris you're in

1088
00:51:47,210 --> 00:51:42,160
thank you for listening to GCS

1089
00:51:51,450 --> 00:51:49,710
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1090
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pleading for his help after a terrible

1096
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battle in outer space but the dreams

1097
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turn out to be true and thrust him into

1098
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1099
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1100
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1110
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1111
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1121
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1125
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1126
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two paychecks instead of one

1127
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I'm pharmacist Keith dr. Wallach the

1128
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dead doctors don't like I am myself want

1129
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1130
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1132
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1133
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:34,940
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1134
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to learn more visit radio not recorded

1135
00:53:43,750 --> 00:53:40,160
video calm that's radio not recorded

1136
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:43,760
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1137
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or call eight six six two five seven

1138
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:48,619
three one zero five four a recorded

1139
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:00,060
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1140
00:54:13,350 --> 00:54:04,410
standard of paranormal radio and now

1141
00:54:15,150 --> 00:54:13,360
here's Jane Steinberg on the para cast

1142
00:54:19,140 --> 00:54:15,160
Loren Coleman we're talking about

1143
00:54:22,050 --> 00:54:19,150
Mothman and we've got Keenan Chris to

1144
00:54:23,580 --> 00:54:22,060
ask him the hard questions look Lauren

1145
00:54:26,100 --> 00:54:23,590
why did it take so long to get a book

1146
00:54:27,930 --> 00:54:26,110
like this out because obviously mas

1147
00:54:30,750 --> 00:54:27,940
might happen in the 60s and the Mothman

1148
00:54:32,340 --> 00:54:30,760
Prophecies published in the seventies

1149
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:32,350
and the movie came out in nearly two

1150
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:33,130
thousands

1151
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:35,290
well Jerry Clark and I wrote a book

1152
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:39,330
called creatures of the outer edge in

1153
00:54:46,770 --> 00:54:45,130
1975 a 78 so that was pretty much talks

1154
00:54:49,020 --> 00:54:46,780
a little bit about the Mothman in there

1155
00:54:53,010 --> 00:54:49,030
I get Mothman and other curious

1156
00:54:56,610 --> 00:54:53,020
encounters in 2002 when the movie came

1157
00:54:59,220 --> 00:54:56,620
out it took me until now I don't know

1158
00:55:01,790 --> 00:54:59,230
but a lot of things came together last

1159
00:55:05,460 --> 00:55:01,800
year I was asked to be the keynote

1160
00:55:07,790 --> 00:55:05,470
speaker at the Mothman festival in Point

1161
00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:07,800
Pleasant because it was the 50th

1162
00:55:13,620 --> 00:55:10,720
anniversary of the first sightings of

1163
00:55:15,870 --> 00:55:13,630
Mothman so I felt a little pressure to

1164
00:55:20,900 --> 00:55:15,880
get this book done that I've been trying

1165
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:20,910
to write for 11 years because this year

1166
00:55:27,180 --> 00:55:24,970
2017 on December 15th was the 50th

1167
00:55:30,270 --> 00:55:27,190
anniversary of the Silver Bridge

1168
00:55:35,070 --> 00:55:30,280
collapsing so a lot of things were

1169
00:55:38,070 --> 00:55:35,080
coming together as well as 2017 had an

1170
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:38,080
explosion of what people are calling

1171
00:55:43,740 --> 00:55:41,170
Mothman sightings in Chicago yeah I

1172
00:55:46,770 --> 00:55:43,750
wanted to get to that at some point yeah

1173
00:55:49,380 --> 00:55:46,780
so we needed to talk about that too

1174
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:49,390
do we still consider the original

1175
00:55:54,900 --> 00:55:52,290
Mothman case unexplained at this point

1176
00:55:56,910 --> 00:55:54,910
definitely you know you have a few

1177
00:56:00,360 --> 00:55:56,920
skeptics of course come along and they

1178
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:00,370
get on TV and they say things like well

1179
00:56:07,530 --> 00:56:03,850
Mothman was nothing but a barn owl or a

1180
00:56:09,420 --> 00:56:07,540
barred owl two real kinds of owls that

1181
00:56:12,540 --> 00:56:09,430
were sitting in a tree

1182
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:12,550
of course Mothman was reported to be 6

1183
00:56:19,950 --> 00:56:17,290
to 7 feet tall and you know flying it 60

1184
00:56:23,430 --> 00:56:19,960
to 100 miles an hour in back of cars

1185
00:56:25,770 --> 00:56:23,440
that doesn't explain Mothman everybody

1186
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:25,780
that I've talked to all the eyewitnesses

1187
00:56:32,370 --> 00:56:29,650
I go into this very open-mindedly but

1188
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:32,380
also skeptically and so I looked at the

1189
00:56:38,580 --> 00:56:35,970
AO explanation I looked at all of the

1190
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:38,590
possible you know people were being

1191
00:56:42,930 --> 00:56:40,690
fooled or there were a series of

1192
00:56:45,390 --> 00:56:42,940
different kinds of animals or different

1193
00:56:48,180 --> 00:56:45,400
kinds of phenomena they were looking at

1194
00:56:50,970 --> 00:56:48,190
it all really fell by the wayside and

1195
00:56:54,060 --> 00:56:50,980
it's one of those cases I have to say I

1196
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:54,070
don't know I really don't know what was

1197
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:56,650
the source of Mothman and it doesn't

1198
00:57:01,530 --> 00:56:58,960
seem to be a case where there was lots

1199
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:01,540
of Mothman there was really only one

1200
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:05,770
Mothman being seen of course in in that

1201
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:08,770
same area you have native peoples for

1202
00:57:14,850 --> 00:57:11,280
hundreds of years who have reported

1203
00:57:17,850 --> 00:57:14,860
Mothman type creatures Mothman is an

1204
00:57:22,020 --> 00:57:17,860
unfortunate name it was a name that came

1205
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:22,030
about in 1967 when a newspaper headline

1206
00:57:28,590 --> 00:57:25,570
a writer who was a fan of the Batman

1207
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:28,600
series on TV decided to be cute and

1208
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:30,970
named this big bird that was being

1209
00:57:36,990 --> 00:57:33,130
reported all over Point Pleasant as a

1210
00:57:39,870 --> 00:57:37,000
Mothman well the native peoples they had

1211
00:57:42,210 --> 00:57:39,880
what they call the flying heads or the

1212
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:42,220
talking heads I mean it seemed like

1213
00:57:46,470 --> 00:57:43,810
talking heads but they were flying heads

1214
00:57:50,430 --> 00:57:46,480
because the actual eyes of these

1215
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:50,440
creatures are on their chest they really

1216
00:57:56,730 --> 00:57:52,930
don't have heads they really have two

1217
00:57:58,350 --> 00:57:56,740
eyes that reflect light on their chest

1218
00:58:00,330 --> 00:57:58,360
that sounds like a good description of

1219
00:58:03,690 --> 00:58:00,340
Mothman yeah exactly

1220
00:58:06,690 --> 00:58:03,700
and then in the 1920s there were reports

1221
00:58:10,380 --> 00:58:06,700
of these giant birds with also eyes in

1222
00:58:13,740 --> 00:58:10,390
their chest following and bothering

1223
00:58:16,350 --> 00:58:13,750
jalopies so even though everybody thinks

1224
00:58:19,230 --> 00:58:16,360
Mothman just happened for two years in

1225
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:19,240
the 1960s there's a whole history in

1226
00:58:25,569 --> 00:58:22,730
that area of Mothman type creatures

1227
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:25,579
the same descriptions being seen well

1228
00:58:29,170 --> 00:58:27,050
what do you think of these Chicago

1229
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:29,180
sightings I know lawn Strickler has done

1230
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:31,010
quite a bit of pretty good quality work

1231
00:58:37,780 --> 00:58:34,010
at least documenting and getting witness

1232
00:58:39,310 --> 00:58:37,790
names and descriptions how closely have

1233
00:58:42,310 --> 00:58:39,320
you been following this and what are

1234
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:42,320
your thoughts on it well I've been

1235
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:44,210
following it very closely and I actually

1236
00:58:52,839 --> 00:58:48,290
just did a review of his book on encrypt

1237
00:58:56,980 --> 00:58:52,849
ozune news because I'd have to back up

1238
00:58:59,740 --> 00:58:56,990
on your description of how these cases

1239
00:59:01,150 --> 00:58:59,750
are being gathered I think that mostly

1240
00:59:05,170 --> 00:59:01,160
they're being gathered through websites

1241
00:59:07,319 --> 00:59:05,180
and maybe some people have the names but

1242
00:59:13,270 --> 00:59:07,329
the names are not being published

1243
00:59:16,089 --> 00:59:13,280
there's some credibility gaps in other

1244
00:59:18,670 --> 00:59:16,099
people not being allowed to actually

1245
00:59:21,460 --> 00:59:18,680
interview the same witnesses so it's

1246
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:21,470
become one of those classic Theriault

1247
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:24,770
toriel situations where well other

1248
00:59:32,349 --> 00:59:27,530
people have investigators have been put

1249
00:59:34,950 --> 00:59:32,359
down one of Long's friends even went on

1250
00:59:38,260 --> 00:59:34,960
a website and said that another

1251
00:59:41,380 --> 00:59:38,270
investigator should be slapped and this

1252
00:59:44,620 --> 00:59:41,390
is a male talking to about a female so I

1253
00:59:47,410 --> 00:59:44,630
have some sexism and some you know

1254
00:59:51,460 --> 00:59:47,420
unfortunate us in there so I'm very

1255
00:59:53,829 --> 00:59:51,470
disturbed by the I think lon

1256
00:59:56,349 --> 00:59:53,839
I'm glad he wrote the book I'm glad the

1257
00:59:58,960 --> 00:59:56,359
cases are out there but in my review of

1258
01:00:01,020 --> 00:59:58,970
his book for instance I was not easy the

1259
01:00:03,790 --> 01:00:01,030
book is terribly produced as a

1260
01:00:06,609 --> 01:00:03,800
self-published book no index no

1261
01:00:10,089 --> 01:00:06,619
organization no chapters no table of

1262
01:00:13,900 --> 01:00:10,099
contents one case from the you know 80s

1263
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:13,910
mixed in with cases from 2017 long

1264
01:00:20,740 --> 01:00:17,690
passages of eyewitness descriptions with

1265
01:00:23,710 --> 01:00:20,750
no analyses so we've got a lot of raw

1266
01:00:25,780 --> 01:00:23,720
data that needs some organization needs

1267
01:00:28,359 --> 01:00:25,790
names needs other people to interview

1268
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:28,369
the same witnesses and there's a lot of

1269
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:31,490
checking for instance no newspaper

1270
01:00:35,710 --> 01:00:34,250
articles have come out with original

1271
01:00:38,430 --> 01:00:35,720
sightings other

1272
01:00:41,710 --> 01:00:38,440
only the Chicago Tribune and another

1273
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:41,720
organization who did articles based upon

1274
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:45,290
that groups investigations but there's

1275
01:00:50,500 --> 01:00:47,570
no double-checking back to the witnesses

1276
01:00:53,710 --> 01:00:50,510
there's no identifying the witnesses

1277
01:00:56,830 --> 01:00:53,720
I personally in all of my investigations

1278
01:00:59,290 --> 01:00:56,840
people identify that themselves I write

1279
01:01:02,200 --> 01:00:59,300
down people's names in my books people

1280
01:01:05,980 --> 01:01:02,210
have to be able to be willing to

1281
01:01:08,950 --> 01:01:05,990
somewhat stand forward and really have

1282
01:01:12,310 --> 01:01:08,960
some kind of checking there no police

1283
01:01:14,410 --> 01:01:12,320
reports in any other Chicago reports one

1284
01:01:17,050 --> 01:01:14,420
of the criticisms that I've really

1285
01:01:20,589 --> 01:01:17,060
thrown at the Chicago sightings if

1286
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:20,599
there's now over 60 sightings maybe 70

1287
01:01:27,609 --> 01:01:25,130
where are the closed-circuit TV I mean

1288
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:27,619
this is an urban area you can't turn

1289
01:01:33,310 --> 01:01:31,130
around in Chicago without your ATM or

1290
01:01:35,500 --> 01:01:33,320
your corner just seen a couple of

1291
01:01:38,410 --> 01:01:35,510
photographs but they haven't been very

1292
01:01:41,170 --> 01:01:38,420
convincing no no the one photograph that

1293
01:01:43,930 --> 01:01:41,180
is kind of widely shown around looks

1294
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:43,940
like an airplane landing in it okay but

1295
01:01:48,700 --> 01:01:46,130
where are the videos that's what I'm

1296
01:01:51,339 --> 01:01:48,710
calling for where are the videos in an

1297
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:51,349
urban area in which you have so many why

1298
01:01:56,260 --> 01:01:53,359
isn't the law enforcement people being

1299
01:01:58,510 --> 01:01:56,270
involved why are they kind of I mean we

1300
01:02:00,970 --> 01:01:58,520
know about law enforcement people and we

1301
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:00,980
knew about news people mainstream news

1302
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:03,890
people ridicule things the other thing

1303
01:02:08,980 --> 01:02:05,210
that bothers me about the Chicago

1304
01:02:11,950 --> 01:02:08,990
sightings honestly is with Mothman in

1305
01:02:14,530 --> 01:02:11,960
West Virginia there was a consistency in

1306
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:14,540
form there was a consistency in

1307
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:17,690
appearance in Chicago you have reports

1308
01:02:25,599 --> 01:02:21,520
that sound like kites airplanes balloons

1309
01:02:28,180 --> 01:02:25,609
smoke you have some birds howls all

1310
01:02:30,490 --> 01:02:28,190
being labeled as Mothman so people have

1311
01:02:32,020 --> 01:02:30,500
said that I've said that Mothman in

1312
01:02:34,930 --> 01:02:32,030
Chicago is nothing but mass hysteria

1313
01:02:37,660 --> 01:02:34,940
I've never said that but I certainly

1314
01:02:41,170 --> 01:02:37,670
think that the use of the word Mothman

1315
01:02:45,250 --> 01:02:41,180
of Chicago has taken on many other kinds

1316
01:02:46,990 --> 01:02:45,260
of creatures within that realm so you

1317
01:02:49,570 --> 01:02:47,000
doesn't sound like you're that impressed

1318
01:02:52,060 --> 01:02:49,580
with the work that's been done up there

1319
01:02:54,550 --> 01:02:52,070
I know initially lon did have names he

1320
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:54,560
did have it seemed like a more quality

1321
01:02:59,380 --> 01:02:57,290
was in care was taken with the reports I

1322
01:03:01,240 --> 01:02:59,390
think later on they may have that

1323
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:01,250
quality may have faded out somewhat but

1324
01:03:05,410 --> 01:03:03,410
initially I remember he was definitely

1325
01:03:08,310 --> 01:03:05,420
the guy that was was making an attempt

1326
01:03:12,670 --> 01:03:08,320
to at least document everything oh I'm

1327
01:03:15,460 --> 01:03:12,680
not saying anything about his ability to

1328
01:03:17,470 --> 01:03:15,470
document it but maybe one or two names

1329
01:03:20,170 --> 01:03:17,480
slipped out in the beginning but then it

1330
01:03:22,030 --> 01:03:20,180
became this this is my stuff I'm not

1331
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:22,040
going to share it with anybody you know

1332
01:03:27,130 --> 01:03:23,570
that's unfortunate we don't have time

1333
01:03:29,700 --> 01:03:27,140
for that yeah yeah and with a couple of

1334
01:03:31,690 --> 01:03:29,710
the women investigators it's been brutal

1335
01:03:36,190 --> 01:03:31,700
do you know what we're gonna have to do

1336
01:03:38,500 --> 01:03:36,200
a break now and once the broken break is

1337
01:03:47,220 --> 01:03:38,510
fixed we can get back here with Lauren

1338
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:50,200
neighbors we've made such a deal with

1339
01:03:56,470 --> 01:03:53,090
hellofresh and it means that everyone

1340
01:03:59,290 --> 01:03:56,480
listening to this show can receive $30

1341
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1342
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1343
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1344
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1345
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comment or question about the para cast

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sent it to news at the para cast com

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that's news at the para cast calm and

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don't forget to visit our famous para

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cast community forums at forum dot the

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01:08:14,079 --> 01:08:13,309
para cast comm Chris is losing his smart

1445
01:08:16,930 --> 01:08:14,089
man voice

1446
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:16,940
you surprised me gene I wasn't ready I

1447
01:08:22,329 --> 01:08:20,210
know I'm happy to surprise people that's

1448
01:08:24,579 --> 01:08:22,339
what the thrill of the show is oh by the

1449
01:08:26,740 --> 01:08:24,589
way I'm not the only one people just

1450
01:08:28,749 --> 01:08:26,750
sometimes just like here I actually got

1451
01:08:31,030 --> 01:08:28,759
a letter from somebody who's a longtime

1452
01:08:33,550 --> 01:08:31,040
subscribed for the para cast plus and he

1453
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:33,560
stopped listening because of you because

1454
01:08:40,570 --> 01:08:38,690
of me no Chris oh maybe he hates you too

1455
01:08:42,939 --> 01:08:40,580
I don't know well what did I do this

1456
01:08:45,630 --> 01:08:42,949
time I don't know I guess he thinks

1457
01:08:48,910 --> 01:08:45,640
you're being a little too shall we say

1458
01:08:51,370 --> 01:08:48,920
direct what's that supposed to mean

1459
01:08:53,919 --> 01:08:51,380
well okay says religion bashing with no

1460
01:08:56,709 --> 01:08:53,929
equal time for the faithful to defend

1461
01:08:58,990 --> 01:08:56,719
their position I'm not aware that we

1462
01:09:01,479 --> 01:08:59,000
discuss religion all that much except in

1463
01:09:04,630 --> 01:09:01,489
the sense of things like Native American

1464
01:09:08,070 --> 01:09:04,640
religions and legends of star people and

1465
01:09:12,370 --> 01:09:08,080
stuff like that or ancient astronauts

1466
01:09:14,890 --> 01:09:12,380
politics always left leading nonsensical

1467
01:09:17,470 --> 01:09:14,900
drivel with absolutely no equal time for

1468
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:17,480
alternative viewpoints well how about

1469
01:09:21,729 --> 01:09:19,489
that dark journalists gentleman he was

1470
01:09:24,849 --> 01:09:21,739
certainly conservative I don't thought

1471
01:09:27,370 --> 01:09:24,859
yeah and I think I gave him a lot more

1472
01:09:28,599 --> 01:09:27,380
rope than I thought he deserved because

1473
01:09:29,289 --> 01:09:28,609
he was saying things that would utter

1474
01:09:32,229 --> 01:09:29,299
nonsense

1475
01:09:33,700 --> 01:09:32,239
you see here's the point I'll defend

1476
01:09:36,970 --> 01:09:33,710
Chris he doesn't have to defend himself

1477
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:36,980
this is the para cast we present

1478
01:09:41,579 --> 01:09:38,330
unvarnished opinions

1479
01:09:44,349 --> 01:09:41,589
we're not politically correct we do not

1480
01:09:48,930 --> 01:09:44,359
say something because somebody likes it

1481
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:48,940
it's what we want to say now in terms of

1482
01:09:55,090 --> 01:09:52,330
left-leaning or right-leaning politics

1483
01:09:56,590 --> 01:09:55,100
we have guests who are on both sides of

1484
01:09:59,860 --> 01:09:56,600
the fence Don Ecker was certainly a

1485
01:10:01,960 --> 01:09:59,870
conservative politically and he comes on

1486
01:10:05,330 --> 01:10:01,970
the show every so often catch

1487
01:10:07,970 --> 01:10:05,340
the key here is not whether it's left or

1488
01:10:12,980 --> 01:10:07,980
right but factual all right

1489
01:10:16,210 --> 01:10:12,990
facts do not have a religion or a

1490
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:16,220
political persuasion let's get back to

1491
01:10:22,010 --> 01:10:18,930
Mothman Chris you want to continue to

1492
01:10:24,650 --> 01:10:22,020
talk with Lauren about this subject yeah

1493
01:10:28,220 --> 01:10:24,660
of course it is one of I think the more

1494
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:28,230
compelling cases from a just an

1495
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:30,330
attendent phenomenon perspective and

1496
01:10:35,780 --> 01:10:32,130
that's one thing about the Kiel book

1497
01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:35,790
that always struck me as being probably

1498
01:10:40,100 --> 01:10:37,920
the most unusual aspect of the thing

1499
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:40,110
besides the actual sightings of the of

1500
01:10:45,380 --> 01:10:42,930
the so-called phenomenon but it's all

1501
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:45,390
the attendant stuff and in keels ability

1502
01:10:50,870 --> 01:10:47,610
to keep track of a lot of stuff going on

1503
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:50,880
in the community stuff that was attended

1504
01:10:54,980 --> 01:10:53,370
to you know what was going on West West

1505
01:10:58,730 --> 01:10:54,990
Virginia but also in his own personal

1506
01:11:00,880 --> 01:10:58,740
life and that's kind of where we're you

1507
01:11:04,220 --> 01:11:00,890
know I felt that sometimes investigators

1508
01:11:05,630 --> 01:11:04,230
when they do start to get involved in

1509
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:05,640
their own investigations they become

1510
01:11:11,350 --> 01:11:08,250
part of the story it gets gonzo it's

1511
01:11:15,070 --> 01:11:11,360
it's really important for them to I

1512
01:11:18,350 --> 01:11:15,080
think retain their their objectivity and

1513
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:18,360
in really try to escape that feeling

1514
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:20,930
that all of a sudden that they're their

1515
01:11:25,130 --> 01:11:23,250
target of the creatures their target of

1516
01:11:27,770 --> 01:11:25,140
the voices or a target that the you know

1517
01:11:30,170 --> 01:11:27,780
the they've gained the attention of

1518
01:11:31,820 --> 01:11:30,180
something because that's when when the

1519
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:31,830
paranoia starts and that's when it can

1520
01:11:36,130 --> 01:11:34,290
get a little dicey too to try to wade

1521
01:11:38,990 --> 01:11:36,140
through what's real and what's not real

1522
01:11:42,590 --> 01:11:39,000
where do you come down on keel in his

1523
01:11:44,450 --> 01:11:42,600
creative writing for instance Lauren how

1524
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:44,460
much can we take everything that is

1525
01:11:50,210 --> 01:11:47,610
reported in there as gospel or how much

1526
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:50,220
the Lord's creative liberties do you

1527
01:11:55,190 --> 01:11:52,170
think he took first of all I had to

1528
01:11:59,840 --> 01:11:55,200
start out by complimenting Kiel I think

1529
01:12:02,810 --> 01:11:59,850
that he is the one writer in modern 40

1530
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:02,820
in literature that tried to do what

1531
01:12:07,550 --> 01:12:06,330
Truman Capote did in cold blood the

1532
01:12:10,550 --> 01:12:07,560
Mothman Prophecies

1533
01:12:14,540 --> 01:12:10,560
is the forty an American novel it's

1534
01:12:15,410 --> 01:12:14,550
nonfiction and I think he'll was an

1535
01:12:18,950 --> 01:12:15,420
extreme

1536
01:12:21,860 --> 01:12:18,960
namely good writer and really it was a

1537
01:12:23,300 --> 01:12:21,870
pleasant experience to read kill and a

1538
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:23,310
lot of people have mentioned that

1539
01:12:28,990 --> 01:12:26,489
they'll met they've mentioned that kill

1540
01:12:32,390 --> 01:12:29,000
will be known forever because he was

1541
01:12:35,919 --> 01:12:32,400
such a wordsmith and he did such a

1542
01:12:40,010 --> 01:12:35,929
smooth job of putting together different

1543
01:12:43,610 --> 01:12:40,020
facets of the Point Pleasant Mothman UFO

1544
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:43,620
story I think that he got some things

1545
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:48,330
wrong but we all do and in fact one of

1546
01:12:56,180 --> 01:12:51,210
the things in my new book is the very

1547
01:13:00,790 --> 01:12:56,190
long Mothman you know kind of check on

1548
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:00,800
him with Mike winkles annotations I

1549
01:13:06,860 --> 01:13:04,410
really wanted somebody to get involved

1550
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:06,870
in this book with me that really looked

1551
01:13:13,250 --> 01:13:11,489
in a compulsive way at every line in the

1552
01:13:16,430 --> 01:13:13,260
Mothman Prophecies and I think you've

1553
01:13:18,530 --> 01:13:16,440
seen some people like mr. X I don't know

1554
01:13:20,570 --> 01:13:18,540
if you know him who did that with

1555
01:13:24,590 --> 01:13:20,580
charles fort going through his books and

1556
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:24,600
looking at every little thing about that

1557
01:13:32,510 --> 01:13:29,730
I'm very happy to say that I don't think

1558
01:13:35,330 --> 01:13:32,520
that kyo made that many mistakes he he

1559
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:35,340
sometimes there are some people that are

1560
01:13:40,250 --> 01:13:38,210
quoted in there that I think are they

1561
01:13:43,459 --> 01:13:40,260
exaggerated their stories to kill

1562
01:13:47,090 --> 01:13:43,469
because keo keo became a magnet he

1563
01:13:50,090 --> 01:13:47,100
became a magnet to individuals when he

1564
01:13:53,060 --> 01:13:50,100
really came into the town they wanted to

1565
01:13:55,729 --> 01:13:53,070
tell him every story that happened to

1566
01:13:59,979 --> 01:13:55,739
them you know cattle mutilations UFOs

1567
01:14:03,500 --> 01:13:59,989
Bigfoot men and black all of those

1568
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:03,510
because Keo listened he listened and he

1569
01:14:10,820 --> 01:14:06,330
didn't make judgments the one thing that

1570
01:14:13,729 --> 01:14:10,830
I do know that happened and I think I'm

1571
01:14:16,430 --> 01:14:13,739
really aware of that I try to make clear

1572
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:16,440
in both my former book in this book is

1573
01:14:21,860 --> 01:14:18,090
that Keo looked through everything

1574
01:14:24,790 --> 01:14:21,870
not as a for Tien towards the end not as

1575
01:14:29,090 --> 01:14:24,800
a ufologist but I in his own

1576
01:14:32,090 --> 01:14:29,100
self-described way he said I am a

1577
01:14:34,850 --> 01:14:32,100
monologist he really thought the world

1578
01:14:37,250 --> 01:14:34,860
was full of demons a lot of bad things

1579
01:14:39,650 --> 01:14:37,260
were gonna happen a lot of bad things

1580
01:14:42,740 --> 01:14:39,660
we're gonna be predicted through his

1581
01:14:46,430 --> 01:14:42,750
psychic friends and for instance when I

1582
01:14:50,780 --> 01:14:46,440
went to interview Linda Scarberry who

1583
01:14:52,490 --> 01:14:50,790
used to be Linda Daniel who died you

1584
01:14:55,370 --> 01:14:52,500
know with another name because she was

1585
01:14:57,110 --> 01:14:55,380
so scared of what was going on she said

1586
01:15:00,920 --> 01:14:57,120
that when John keel came to her house

1587
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:00,930
and interviewed her after keel left she

1588
01:15:08,030 --> 01:15:05,610
was so frightened so scared so you know

1589
01:15:11,060 --> 01:15:08,040
in fear of what was going to happen with

1590
01:15:13,970 --> 01:15:11,070
regard to she was eyewitness to Mothman

1591
01:15:19,220 --> 01:15:13,980
that she put crucifixes on every wall in

1592
01:15:21,470 --> 01:15:19,230
her house a couple years later she had a

1593
01:15:23,390 --> 01:15:21,480
back then of course was called a nervous

1594
01:15:26,330 --> 01:15:23,400
breakdown she went to a mental hospital

1595
01:15:28,940 --> 01:15:26,340
for several months because of the whole

1596
01:15:31,130 --> 01:15:28,950
Mothman situation but also I think in

1597
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:31,140
many ways because of the way Keough

1598
01:15:34,340 --> 01:15:33,930
interviewed her and frightened her to

1599
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:34,350
death

1600
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:37,170
and keel left in his wake and I think it

1601
01:15:41,770 --> 01:15:40,170
was kind of his irony that whenever he

1602
01:15:44,990 --> 01:15:41,780
was invited back to the Mothman

1603
01:15:49,550 --> 01:15:45,000
festivals after the movie he would

1604
01:15:51,170 --> 01:15:49,560
always wear a white suit and that was

1605
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:51,180
his way of saying you know in your face

1606
01:15:56,870 --> 01:15:54,330
men in black but also it was a kind of

1607
01:15:59,390 --> 01:15:56,880
he was trying to flip the whole story

1608
01:16:02,570 --> 01:15:59,400
that he was really a very dark man you

1609
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:02,580
know John keel had this amazing sense of

1610
01:16:07,820 --> 01:16:05,130
humor too and he used to write letters

1611
01:16:11,450 --> 01:16:07,830
to the editor to my magazine caveat

1612
01:16:14,210 --> 01:16:11,460
emptor and they were just amazingly

1613
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hilarious we I mean he was like he was

1614
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attacking us but not it was a lot of fun

1615
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we got more to come the book is called

1616
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Mothman evil incarnate Loren Coleman

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Jean Steinberg Chris O'Brien you're in

1618
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[Music]

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you are listening to GPS

1620
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visit GCN live.com today this is dan

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this is actually you're listening to the

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01:21:13,629 --> 01:21:02,670
podcast the gold standard of Grenoble

1719
01:21:18,620 --> 01:21:16,280
now I don't know if you recall this

1720
01:21:22,580 --> 01:21:18,630
because it happened what eight years ago

1721
01:21:25,010 --> 01:21:22,590
but you Loren Coleman Jerry Clark Tim

1722
01:21:26,839 --> 01:21:25,020
Beck Lee Jim Mosely Brad Steiger and

1723
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:26,849
Kurtz awfully old friend of mine I'm

1724
01:21:32,180 --> 01:21:27,810
sure you know Kurt

1725
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:32,190
we did a Memorial episode about John

1726
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:35,730
keel this was July 12 2009 and one of

1727
01:21:40,070 --> 01:21:38,130
the references made by several guests

1728
01:21:44,060 --> 01:21:40,080
and I think Jerry Clark was one of those

1729
01:21:48,290 --> 01:21:44,070
people was that kill was not as rigorous

1730
01:21:49,370 --> 01:21:48,300
a UFO investigator as he might have been

1731
01:21:53,990 --> 01:21:49,380
what do you think

1732
01:21:56,540 --> 01:21:54,000
well Jerry has very high standards as

1733
01:21:59,450 --> 01:21:56,550
you know so none of us will meet his

1734
01:22:01,669 --> 01:21:59,460
standards except problems none of us

1735
01:22:03,589 --> 01:22:01,679
will meet Jerry Clark standards and also

1736
01:22:05,810 --> 01:22:03,599
towards the end he really didn't like

1737
01:22:08,890 --> 01:22:05,820
Kiel I mean I just have to say that out

1738
01:22:11,270 --> 01:22:08,900
I agree with you I think he'll had a

1739
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:11,280
tremendous sense of humor

1740
01:22:16,310 --> 01:22:13,650
some of the letters I have from him from

1741
01:22:18,770 --> 01:22:16,320
the 60s and 70s just would have me

1742
01:22:21,859 --> 01:22:18,780
rolling and you know on my parents floor

1743
01:22:25,399 --> 01:22:21,869
so to speak but then what happened with

1744
01:22:28,189 --> 01:22:25,409
Kiel is he did get he almost believed

1745
01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:28,199
his own irony in his own crustiness and

1746
01:22:35,180 --> 01:22:31,050
I think with UFO people with UFO

1747
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:35,190
incidents kill would be very lakhs of

1748
01:22:39,859 --> 01:22:38,010
days ago he'd be very that's why he

1749
01:22:41,750 --> 01:22:39,869
threw in all the psychic stuff and

1750
01:22:44,270 --> 01:22:41,760
almost anything else

1751
01:22:46,669 --> 01:22:44,280
whereas Jerry Clark would only say you

1752
01:22:49,339 --> 01:22:46,679
know this very rigidly needs to be

1753
01:22:52,189 --> 01:22:49,349
investigated this way or that so I have

1754
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:52,199
to agree with Jerry but I think I look

1755
01:22:58,100 --> 01:22:54,090
through the glasses of the person making

1756
01:22:59,870 --> 01:22:58,110
the critique what do you think John kill

1757
01:23:02,720 --> 01:22:59,880
is a researcher do you think most of the

1758
01:23:04,899 --> 01:23:02,730
key cases you talked about he got right

1759
01:23:08,060 --> 01:23:04,909
I'm obviously he had a lot of these

1760
01:23:12,169 --> 01:23:08,070
paranoiac aspects to UFOs the

1761
01:23:13,910 --> 01:23:12,179
doppelgangers the crazy phone calls of

1762
01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:13,920
course sometimes I wondered when he ever

1763
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:15,810
talk about crazy phone calls that was

1764
01:23:21,050 --> 01:23:17,610
Jim Mosley and gray Barker pulling a

1765
01:23:22,150 --> 01:23:21,060
stunt but it could be I think the only

1766
01:23:25,540 --> 01:23:22,160
thing that happened

1767
01:23:28,750 --> 01:23:25,550
is Kia was a very good researcher he

1768
01:23:31,060 --> 01:23:28,760
wrote things down he kept clipping Z you

1769
01:23:33,400 --> 01:23:31,070
know he did all kinds of very good 40

1770
01:23:37,180 --> 01:23:33,410
and filing you follow just kind of

1771
01:23:39,900 --> 01:23:37,190
things but because of the movie I mean

1772
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:39,910
first you have to have the screen of the

1773
01:23:47,230 --> 01:23:43,610
Mothman Prophecies the book which made

1774
01:23:49,210 --> 01:23:47,240
the story more palpable to readers and

1775
01:23:51,790 --> 01:23:49,220
made it like a novel then you come along

1776
01:23:54,220 --> 01:23:51,800
and you have the movie which is highly

1777
01:23:57,610 --> 01:23:54,230
fictionalized so a lot of people now

1778
01:24:00,580 --> 01:23:57,620
blame keel for that movie that had you

1779
01:24:03,820 --> 01:24:00,590
know Richard Gere as one part of his

1780
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:03,830
personality and Alan Bates is another

1781
01:24:08,590 --> 01:24:06,530
part of Kiehl's personality being

1782
01:24:12,010 --> 01:24:08,600
contemporary not even happening in the

1783
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:12,020
60s and throwing an awful awful stories

1784
01:24:17,170 --> 01:24:14,570
like Mothman was seen at Chernobyl

1785
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:17,180
before Chernobyl happen and Keele and I

1786
01:24:22,060 --> 01:24:20,570
actually in tandem on the few interviews

1787
01:24:23,830 --> 01:24:22,070
that he would do would say you know

1788
01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:23,840
there's garbage in the movie there's

1789
01:24:29,230 --> 01:24:26,330
garbage there's trash that didn't happen

1790
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:29,240
that death so we had to spend as much

1791
01:24:34,890 --> 01:24:32,890
time telling about the real incidents of

1792
01:24:38,380 --> 01:24:34,900
1966-67

1793
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:38,390
talking about those but also denying all

1794
01:24:43,390 --> 01:24:40,610
of the false stuff that was put in the

1795
01:24:45,580 --> 01:24:43,400
movie like mark pellington the director

1796
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:45,590
changed the number of people killed on

1797
01:24:53,410 --> 01:24:48,890
the bridge from the bridge clap from 46

1798
01:24:57,070 --> 01:24:53,420
to 36 and he told USA Today I thought

1799
01:25:01,150 --> 01:24:57,080
that any number over 40 was too much and

1800
01:25:03,970 --> 01:25:01,160
besides 36 was the number of my father's

1801
01:25:06,550 --> 01:25:03,980
football jersey in high school I mean

1802
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:06,560
it's just incredible what Keough had to

1803
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:08,810
deal with at the end well you see this

1804
01:25:15,990 --> 01:25:12,370
is also part of any time you sell a

1805
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:16,000
story even a factual book to Hollywood

1806
01:25:21,070 --> 01:25:19,250
they're gonna do stuff they reserve the

1807
01:25:23,260 --> 01:25:21,080
right to do stuff I mean the biggest

1808
01:25:25,390 --> 01:25:23,270
joke and the legendary example of this

1809
01:25:28,870 --> 01:25:25,400
is back in the 50s when they bought one

1810
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:28,880
of major Donald Kehoe's UFO books and it

1811
01:25:34,510 --> 01:25:32,210
became ultimately earth vs. the flying

1812
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:34,520
saucers and maybe there was a thirty

1813
01:25:37,580 --> 01:25:35,370
second and four

1814
01:25:40,310 --> 01:25:37,590
duction about UFO sightings - that film

1815
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:40,320
that related to something in Kehoe's

1816
01:25:47,170 --> 01:25:44,130
book right and he was embarrassed beyond

1817
01:25:49,850 --> 01:25:47,180
belief I gathered from reading his

1818
01:25:51,230 --> 01:25:49,860
follow-up books at the time where he's

1819
01:25:53,540 --> 01:25:51,240
sort of expected they were gonna do a

1820
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:53,550
documentary or something I guess his

1821
01:25:58,310 --> 01:25:55,410
agent didn't communicate very well with

1822
01:26:00,980 --> 01:25:58,320
Hollywood but when it comes to buying a

1823
01:26:05,030 --> 01:26:00,990
property they can literally take the

1824
01:26:07,250 --> 01:26:05,040
title and maybe even change that and use

1825
01:26:10,810 --> 01:26:07,260
practically nothing from the book and

1826
01:26:13,910 --> 01:26:10,820
crafting a new script oh absolutely

1827
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:13,920
it's just keel didn't know that and he

1828
01:26:20,930 --> 01:26:16,890
was upset I mean as things go it was a

1829
01:26:24,670 --> 01:26:20,940
sci-fi movie period or a horror film I

1830
01:26:31,700 --> 01:26:28,640
psychological thriller and they don't

1831
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:31,710
care as far as they're concerned they

1832
01:26:40,940 --> 01:26:36,770
use it as a stepping point so a

1833
01:26:44,420 --> 01:26:40,950
composite character named Cline played

1834
01:26:48,230 --> 01:26:44,430
by Richard Gere is I guess the John keel

1835
01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:48,240
composite the character but I mean John

1836
01:26:58,280 --> 01:26:55,290
keel Richard Gere always liked the big

1837
01:27:01,610 --> 01:26:58,290
picture he'll I mean I'm Richard Gere to

1838
01:27:04,430 --> 01:27:01,620
be Keo he thought but then everybody in

1839
01:27:06,950 --> 01:27:04,440
the movie knew that the other character

1840
01:27:10,700 --> 01:27:06,960
Alan Bates played leaked which is keel

1841
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:10,710
backwards looked more like keel so that

1842
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:14,730
was the intro in the movie Wow look he

1843
01:27:20,740 --> 01:27:18,210
got what 80,000 dollars for this that's

1844
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:20,750
not bad I mean there are people who sell

1845
01:27:27,170 --> 01:27:23,970
stuff to movie companies and they're

1846
01:27:30,500 --> 01:27:27,180
lucky to get five grand when we had the

1847
01:27:33,250 --> 01:27:30,510
author of the biography of dr. J Alan

1848
01:27:35,780 --> 01:27:33,260
Hynek on the para cast some months back

1849
01:27:37,810 --> 01:27:35,790
he revealed that in connection with

1850
01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:37,820
Close Encounters of the Third Kind

1851
01:27:42,980 --> 01:27:40,050
Steven Spielberg and his production

1852
01:27:45,650 --> 01:27:42,990
people never reached out to Hynek at all

1853
01:27:47,050 --> 01:27:45,660
and when Hynek learned what was going on

1854
01:27:50,170 --> 01:27:47,060
he contacted them

1855
01:27:52,030 --> 01:27:50,180
and they threw him a bone they made him

1856
01:27:53,950 --> 01:27:52,040
a technical adviser they gave him this

1857
01:27:57,040 --> 01:27:53,960
famous cameo which I thought was

1858
01:27:59,080 --> 01:27:57,050
actually quite significant at the latter

1859
01:28:04,090 --> 01:27:59,090
part of the film when the spaceship had

1860
01:28:08,020 --> 01:28:04,100
landed and they gave him $3,500 I know

1861
01:28:10,630 --> 01:28:08,030
that's awful I know well I have my own

1862
01:28:15,010 --> 01:28:10,640
stories about I have a one of my books

1863
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:15,020
is under movie option it has been for 13

1864
01:28:25,810 --> 01:28:20,930
years and this all started almost 15

1865
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:25,820
years ago when Nicholas Cage told

1866
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:30,530
Variety magazine a variety newspaper

1867
01:28:35,980 --> 01:28:33,290
that they had the option for the Tom

1868
01:28:37,750 --> 01:28:35,990
slick books they never had the option

1869
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:37,760
for the books they never signed anything

1870
01:28:43,660 --> 01:28:40,250
with me I finally tracked down one of

1871
01:28:46,540 --> 01:28:43,670
the strip writers who was the same guy

1872
01:28:49,390 --> 01:28:46,550
who did Mars Attacks and he said oh yeah

1873
01:28:52,300 --> 01:28:49,400
they're showing us Xerox copies of the

1874
01:28:54,550 --> 01:28:52,310
book around the production company well

1875
01:28:56,800 --> 01:28:54,560
I got some people to get hold of them

1876
01:29:00,970 --> 01:28:56,810
and they dropped that because they never

1877
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:00,980
had my option of my book and you know

1878
01:29:06,700 --> 01:29:04,250
now then another director came to me and

1879
01:29:08,590 --> 01:29:06,710
signed a real option to the book but

1880
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:08,600
they've never produced it because

1881
01:29:13,060 --> 01:29:10,010
there's a lot of books they're in

1882
01:29:15,340 --> 01:29:13,070
development hell and Kiehl's book was in

1883
01:29:17,890 --> 01:29:15,350
development hell for a long time and he

1884
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:17,900
didn't get his money until actually a

1885
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:22,010
studio signed on to the movie so at

1886
01:29:25,630 --> 01:29:24,890
least he got that who knows where that

1887
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:25,640
money went

1888
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:28,610
who knows you know how many debts he was

1889
01:29:33,460 --> 01:29:31,010
able to finally he told people at the

1890
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:33,470
end of his life that is you didn't want

1891
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:34,970
to get out of the nursing home because

1892
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:38,330
his car had four flat tires neat with

1893
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:41,570
owed money on his apartment so he didn't

1894
01:29:46,060 --> 01:29:44,210
want to leave the nursing home but they

1895
01:29:48,700 --> 01:29:46,070
forced him out anyway and he went back

1896
01:29:51,010 --> 01:29:48,710
through his apartment was helped by

1897
01:29:53,290 --> 01:29:51,020
certain people then he went back to the

1898
01:29:56,260 --> 01:29:53,300
nursing home and died so uh that's the

1899
01:29:58,870 --> 01:29:56,270
way it is sometimes so much Hollywood I

1900
01:30:00,640 --> 01:29:58,880
mean I wrote a couple of novels with my

1901
01:30:04,150 --> 01:30:00,650
son sci-fi novels

1902
01:30:07,210 --> 01:30:04,160
and I had a lawyer and an agent with the

1903
01:30:09,010 --> 01:30:07,220
proper writers guild connections and

1904
01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:09,020
they didn't do anything and you never

1905
01:30:12,610 --> 01:30:11,090
know ten years from now I'll be long

1906
01:30:14,830 --> 01:30:12,620
dead and they'll be interested this way

1907
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:14,840
they don't have to pay my estate because

1908
01:30:18,340 --> 01:30:16,250
it won't be an estate at that particular

1909
01:30:20,350 --> 01:30:18,350
point you see they give him plenty of

1910
01:30:21,820 --> 01:30:20,360
time but that's how they would for you

1911
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:21,830
right anyway

1912
01:30:31,190 --> 01:30:24,170
Loren Coleman gene Steinberg Chris

1913
01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:39,399
[Music]

1914
01:30:47,910 --> 01:30:43,330
thank you for listening to GCN

1915
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be sure to visit GCN live.com today do

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1928
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1929
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there's the coming of the protectors a

1930
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1931
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contacted by a space woman in a dream a

1932
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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

1933
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because evil forces on our distant

1934
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planet are planning to conquer the earth

1935
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this is gripping science fiction of the

1936
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classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and

1937
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the coming of the protectors find out

1938
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more at rockets calm that's rockets our

1939
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Ock oids calm water is the single most

1940
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1941
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1942
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1944
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1947
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1948
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1949
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1950
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1951
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1952
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1953
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1954
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1955
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1956
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1957
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1958
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1960
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1961
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1962
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1963
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1964
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1965
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telling you about Jordan Ruben's beyond

1966
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1967
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cheese featuring whole milk created

1968
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through ancient

1969
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Darry breeding unpasteurized untreated

1970
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whole milk on the same farm the cows

1971
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graze containing natural sources of

1972
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1973
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probiotics and enzymes I have never

1974
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tasted cheese this good and you need to

1975
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try it

1976
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contact your youngevity distributor or

1977
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call eight seven seven eight seven eight

1978
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4203 or go to GCN team.com hi peter

1979
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Picaro for paranormal date.com are you

1980
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1981
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now you have a chance to change that by

1982
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1983
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date calm this incredible dating site

1984
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1985
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1986
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1987
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1988
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1989
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you people seeking a viable alternative

1990
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to the other dating services you can

1991
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1992
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date calm and if you decide you like it

1993
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1994
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code Gorge for a substantial discount

1995
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1996
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bayt.com says so many people hunger to

1997
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share their experiences about the

1998
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1999
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afterlife and so much more and this is

2000
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the source for them to meet and share

2001
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2002
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2003
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calm and use the code George if you

2004
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decide to connect with someone you like

2005
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2006
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talking thick meaty center-cut

2007
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2008
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I buy some I use some I store some

2009
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awesome no refrigeration needed with a

2010
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2011
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2012
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fully hydrated ready to eat right from

2013
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2014
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2015
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2016
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cooked bacon calm fully cooked bacon

2017
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calm hello this is John Burroughs one of

2018
01:34:56,209 --> 01:34:54,940
the witnesses to the Rendlesham UFO

2019
01:34:58,370 --> 01:34:56,219
incident

2020
01:35:07,419 --> 01:34:58,380
- the pair cast the gold standard about

2021
01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:10,669
lauren has the touch see when they talk

2022
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:12,210
about me they say he's touched but

2023
01:35:20,060 --> 01:35:16,050
Lauren has the touch what did you

2024
01:35:22,040 --> 01:35:20,070
discover in looking over this case in

2025
01:35:25,580 --> 01:35:22,050
connection with this book did you

2026
01:35:27,860 --> 01:35:25,590
discover anything that changes what we

2027
01:35:30,290 --> 01:35:27,870
first felt it wasn't true

2028
01:35:34,340 --> 01:35:30,300
about our original perceptions of muff

2029
01:35:36,770 --> 01:35:34,350
men well one thing that I really tried

2030
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:36,780
to put out as a message is that with

2031
01:35:44,330 --> 01:35:40,530
time the Mothman case has got an more

2032
01:35:45,700 --> 01:35:44,340
evil but it also has grown a head and I

2033
01:35:48,530 --> 01:35:45,710
mean that literally

2034
01:35:51,500 --> 01:35:48,540
INRI interviewing witnesses down through

2035
01:35:54,490 --> 01:35:51,510
the years some of the people actually

2036
01:35:58,610 --> 01:35:54,500
started changing what they said they saw

2037
01:36:02,149 --> 01:35:58,620
based upon what other people and other

2038
01:36:04,850 --> 01:36:02,159
documentaries had said they saw so Maas

2039
01:36:09,169 --> 01:36:04,860
band which was nothing more than kind of

2040
01:36:12,950 --> 01:36:09,179
a blobby large bird with no feet no

2041
01:36:16,370 --> 01:36:12,960
hands and no head if you look at some of

2042
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:16,380
the recreations of Mothman nowadays they

2043
01:36:20,810 --> 01:36:19,890
have hands they have feet and Mothman

2044
01:36:23,149 --> 01:36:20,820
has a head

2045
01:36:26,240 --> 01:36:23,159
none of those was seen by the original

2046
01:36:29,510 --> 01:36:26,250
eyewitnesses and so in many ways it's a

2047
01:36:32,450 --> 01:36:29,520
very good case study in eyewitness

2048
01:36:36,290 --> 01:36:32,460
perception and eyewitness sort of

2049
01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:36,300
corruption because it has become a very

2050
01:36:42,919 --> 01:36:40,290
famous media case a lot of shows love it

2051
01:36:45,740 --> 01:36:42,929
you know there's some bad bad movies

2052
01:36:48,439 --> 01:36:45,750
that besides the Mothman Prophecies that

2053
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:48,449
have been made about Mothman on sci-fi

2054
01:36:53,930 --> 01:36:50,730
channel and others there's some really

2055
01:36:57,830 --> 01:36:53,940
horrible documentaries and reality TV

2056
01:37:00,470 --> 01:36:57,840
programs on Mothman and most of those do

2057
01:37:03,080 --> 01:37:00,480
things like you know have investigators

2058
01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:03,090
dive into the river with no clothes I

2059
01:37:07,939 --> 01:37:05,130
mean just with swimsuits on and

2060
01:37:10,370 --> 01:37:07,949
different things like that stupidly and

2061
01:37:13,340 --> 01:37:10,380
yet you have people like Seth Breedlove

2062
01:37:15,830 --> 01:37:13,350
a new guy on the scene a documentary

2063
01:37:18,350 --> 01:37:15,840
filmmaker that did a whole brand new

2064
01:37:19,490 --> 01:37:18,360
documentary called the Mothman of Point

2065
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:19,500
Pleasant and

2066
01:37:26,330 --> 01:37:22,170
which he goes back and he finds original

2067
01:37:29,620 --> 01:37:26,340
witnesses he really in many ways does

2068
01:37:32,360 --> 01:37:29,630
some good editing of those eyewitness

2069
01:37:35,620 --> 01:37:32,370
accounts so that they don't just kind of

2070
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:35,630
feed what wants to be what the

2071
01:37:39,980 --> 01:37:38,010
documentary filmmaker might want to hear

2072
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:39,990
you know they think in their own mind

2073
01:37:45,230 --> 01:37:42,210
Mothman doesn't have hands my friend

2074
01:37:49,310 --> 01:37:45,240
doesn't have heads and so documentary

2075
01:37:52,700 --> 01:37:49,320
filmmakers like Seth Breedlove who's

2076
01:37:54,290 --> 01:37:52,710
doing that kind of documentary where

2077
01:37:56,030 --> 01:37:54,300
he's trying to get back to the original

2078
01:37:59,570 --> 01:37:56,040
is the kind that people should be

2079
01:38:01,730 --> 01:37:59,580
watching so after all these years we

2080
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:01,740
cannot find any conventional explanation

2081
01:38:06,050 --> 01:38:02,570
for this

2082
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:06,060
no as far as I'm concerned Mothman is

2083
01:38:11,390 --> 01:38:08,970
still unknown there's not any if you

2084
01:38:13,340 --> 01:38:11,400
want to believe this juh bunkers and

2085
01:38:17,270 --> 01:38:13,350
believe the the skeptics with the

2086
01:38:20,240 --> 01:38:17,280
big-ass it was nothing more than a mass

2087
01:38:22,790 --> 01:38:20,250
hysteria caused by giant birds well

2088
01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:22,800
there was one al that was killed and the

2089
01:38:30,710 --> 01:38:28,170
report still occurred once know al but

2090
01:38:33,950 --> 01:38:30,720
there was nothing to do with any kind of

2091
01:38:37,340 --> 01:38:33,960
explanation there was over 200 witnesses

2092
01:38:41,330 --> 01:38:37,350
of Mothman and they basically all agreed

2093
01:38:45,830 --> 01:38:41,340
it was a large bird-like creature six

2094
01:38:49,910 --> 01:38:45,840
seven feet tall the eyes did not glow

2095
01:38:52,730 --> 01:38:49,920
red they actually only produced the red

2096
01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:52,740
color whenever headlights or street

2097
01:38:58,310 --> 01:38:55,650
lights or flash lights was pointed in

2098
01:39:00,830 --> 01:38:58,320
their direction so that's part of the

2099
01:39:03,980 --> 01:39:00,840
myth making that occurred afterwards is

2100
01:39:07,850 --> 01:39:03,990
this creature had red eyes it only had

2101
01:39:10,430 --> 01:39:07,860
red reflective eyes so uh but nobody

2102
01:39:12,980 --> 01:39:10,440
knows what it was nobody has really seen

2103
01:39:15,710 --> 01:39:12,990
anything there's been other reports of

2104
01:39:19,490 --> 01:39:15,720
Mothman in that general area there's not

2105
01:39:23,300 --> 01:39:19,500
been a concentration of what we call

2106
01:39:26,930 --> 01:39:23,310
flap or a sighting cluster and that's

2107
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:26,940
why originally it was exciting to think

2108
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:29,370
about was there something else like this

2109
01:39:37,410 --> 01:39:33,010
going on in Chicago it turns out

2110
01:39:41,669 --> 01:39:37,420
No what about before the Mothman was

2111
01:39:45,180 --> 01:39:41,679
seen do we have a Mothman in earlier

2112
01:39:47,759 --> 01:39:45,190
history of paranormal events well here's

2113
01:39:50,209 --> 01:39:47,769
where it gets confusing because actually

2114
01:39:54,839 --> 01:39:50,219
Mothman because it's a new word from

2115
01:39:58,379 --> 01:39:54,849
1966-67 you have to look backwards in

2116
01:40:02,250 --> 01:39:58,389
time and in records at other words that

2117
01:40:07,859 --> 01:40:02,260
were used like Thunderbird like giant

2118
01:40:12,270 --> 01:40:07,869
birds like Big Bird or even reports of

2119
01:40:15,870 --> 01:40:12,280
creatures that seem to mimic large birds

2120
01:40:20,120 --> 01:40:15,880
or other things like for instance some

2121
01:40:23,819 --> 01:40:20,130
of the Bigfoot reports seem to be

2122
01:40:27,799 --> 01:40:23,829
Mothman like if you look at how Mothman

2123
01:40:32,189 --> 01:40:27,809
and some Bigfoot tend to use camouflage

2124
01:40:35,549 --> 01:40:32,199
near trees and disappear and so actually

2125
01:40:41,220 --> 01:40:35,559
a friend of mine the late mark a Hall

2126
01:40:43,229 --> 01:40:41,230
who wrote a book called Thunderbirds he

2127
01:40:49,890 --> 01:40:43,239
did a whole chapter in that book called

2128
01:40:52,430 --> 01:40:49,900
big hoot big h oo T big hoot because he

2129
01:40:55,709 --> 01:40:52,440
felt this was the more proper name for

2130
01:40:58,259 --> 01:40:55,719
Mothman he thought it was a big owl the

2131
01:41:01,379 --> 01:40:58,269
big al that actually stood up words of 5

2132
01:41:04,500 --> 01:41:01,389
to 7 feet tall and then could mask

2133
01:41:08,310 --> 01:41:04,510
itself in forests and up against trees

2134
01:41:11,220 --> 01:41:08,320
and then would reveal itself and he felt

2135
01:41:14,459 --> 01:41:11,230
that some people were mistakenly seeing

2136
01:41:16,740 --> 01:41:14,469
these on the ground big owls and calling

2137
01:41:19,560 --> 01:41:16,750
them Bigfoot so it gets very confusing

2138
01:41:22,229 --> 01:41:19,570
but if you look back and mark is the one

2139
01:41:25,310 --> 01:41:22,239
that did the original research finding

2140
01:41:28,799 --> 01:41:25,320
the reports in Pennsylvania and other

2141
01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:28,809
locations from the 20s as well as the

2142
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:32,530
Native American reports myself looking

2143
01:41:37,379 --> 01:41:34,690
at some of the Thunderbird reports and

2144
01:41:40,229 --> 01:41:37,389
wind weirdy reports from all across the

2145
01:41:42,870 --> 01:41:40,239
country you can see reflections of

2146
01:41:45,569 --> 01:41:42,880
Mothman like creatures there's even the

2147
01:41:46,680 --> 01:41:45,579
reports in Washington State of what was

2148
01:41:49,800 --> 01:41:46,690
called bats

2149
01:41:53,370 --> 01:41:49,810
watch and back Squatch was a huge

2150
01:41:56,370 --> 01:41:53,380
creature that had wings that was

2151
01:41:58,709 --> 01:41:56,380
reported in the same areas Bigfoot or

2152
01:42:01,050 --> 01:41:58,719
Sasquatch so people thought it was some

2153
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:01,060
way related to Sasquatch when in fact

2154
01:42:07,260 --> 01:42:04,090
it's just some kind of wind weird a1a

2155
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:07,270
kind of a 40 in phenomena as far as we

2156
01:42:14,939 --> 01:42:10,690
know like Mothman so we could therefore

2157
01:42:16,770 --> 01:42:14,949
have a song called bat Squatch using the

2158
01:42:20,340 --> 01:42:16,780
melody from the Batman theme of the

2159
01:42:24,780 --> 01:42:20,350
1960s you could do anything you want

2160
01:42:28,620 --> 01:42:24,790
apparently gene yes yes I mean there is

2161
01:42:31,140 --> 01:42:28,630
the whole confusion here is is the names

2162
01:42:33,810 --> 01:42:31,150
I mean I think as long as you have

2163
01:42:37,110 --> 01:42:33,820
people coming along and giving names the

2164
01:42:39,420 --> 01:42:37,120
thing then then people kind of have

2165
01:42:41,729 --> 01:42:39,430
these projections from the name that

2166
01:42:44,010 --> 01:42:41,739
have nothing to do with original reports

2167
01:42:46,770 --> 01:42:44,020
but if we could get rid of all of the

2168
01:42:49,979 --> 01:42:46,780
names bat Squatch and thunder bird and

2169
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:49,989
big boots and Mothman we wouldn't be

2170
01:42:53,939 --> 01:42:51,610
able to talk about them but we might

2171
01:42:55,370 --> 01:42:53,949
have more of the real data that all

2172
01:42:58,560 --> 01:42:55,380
connects

2173
01:43:02,370 --> 01:42:58,570
well of course sometimes then the using

2174
01:43:06,540 --> 01:43:02,380
the words flying saucer or a UFO conveys

2175
01:43:09,270 --> 01:43:06,550
an image of what people are seeing that

2176
01:43:13,110 --> 01:43:09,280
may be colored by the term we're about

2177
01:43:15,990 --> 01:43:13,120
ghosts and what about Bigfoot right

2178
01:43:19,950 --> 01:43:16,000
Bigfoot has an image you know ghost

2179
01:43:24,150 --> 01:43:19,960
ships from Scandinavia or flying saucers

2180
01:43:26,850 --> 01:43:24,160
from Kentucky or little green men those

2181
01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:26,860
all do give images that really already

2182
01:43:32,850 --> 01:43:29,410
set up the eyewitness trying to talk

2183
01:43:35,970 --> 01:43:32,860
about it with English language that

2184
01:43:38,580 --> 01:43:35,980
really gives them no flexibility even

2185
01:43:42,689 --> 01:43:38,590
the in it that's mostly caused by the

2186
01:43:44,550 --> 01:43:42,699
media then well I guess it also makes it

2187
01:43:46,530 --> 01:43:44,560
more difficult for investigators to see

2188
01:43:49,350 --> 01:43:46,540
what's going on because you want to

2189
01:43:54,380 --> 01:43:49,360
report the core phenomenon whatever it

2190
01:43:56,610 --> 01:43:54,390
is without the label what was seen and

2191
01:43:58,320 --> 01:43:56,620
certainly people who witness these

2192
01:44:00,100 --> 01:43:58,330
things going to try to find a convenient

2193
01:44:06,120 --> 01:44:00,110
explanation to just

2194
01:44:08,439 --> 01:44:06,130
the unknown so separating the cultural

2195
01:44:11,950 --> 01:44:08,449
interpretation from the actual event is

2196
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:11,960
obviously difficult absolutely

2197
01:44:16,660 --> 01:44:13,010
absolutely

2198
01:44:19,209 --> 01:44:16,670
and that's why skeptics or debunkers can

2199
01:44:22,060 --> 01:44:19,219
roll right up and say well flatwoods

2200
01:44:25,030 --> 01:44:22,070
monster Mothman these are nothing but

2201
01:44:29,229 --> 01:44:25,040
Al's because they fit the description

2202
01:44:33,850 --> 01:44:29,239
that I'm putting together from some of

2203
01:44:35,470 --> 01:44:33,860
these really strange descriptions I want

2204
01:44:40,030 --> 01:44:35,480
to talk briefly about the flatwoods

2205
01:44:42,310 --> 01:44:40,040
monster because as you might expect as

2206
01:44:47,229 --> 01:44:42,320
soon as I first heard about Mothman I'm

2207
01:44:49,359 --> 01:44:47,239
an old I thought well what about the

2208
01:44:51,640 --> 01:44:49,369
flatwoods monster was that something in

2209
01:44:55,060 --> 01:44:51,650
any way related but then again you'd

2210
01:44:59,560 --> 01:44:55,070
have to separate the perception of

2211
01:45:03,160 --> 01:44:59,570
whatever we're seeing from the actual

2212
01:45:06,459 --> 01:45:03,170
event and maybe we'll try that flatwoods

2213
01:45:08,439 --> 01:45:06,469
monster do you people remember that we

2214
01:45:10,660 --> 01:45:08,449
did have an episode or two about that on

2215
01:45:14,320 --> 01:45:10,670
the power caster in the early years but

2216
01:45:17,890 --> 01:45:14,330
this book is about Mothman Mothman evil

2217
01:45:24,860 --> 01:45:17,900
incarnate Loren Coleman Jean Steinberg

2218
01:45:24,870 --> 01:45:29,339
[Music]

2219
01:45:37,790 --> 01:45:33,290
thank you for listening to GCN

2220
01:45:40,010 --> 01:45:37,800
be sure to visit GCN live.com today we

2221
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2222
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2229
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2238
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for women's stuff for men we have all

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sorts of sizes like small up 2x large a

2240
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lot good stuff that's the swag from the

2241
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2242
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2243
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looking for that edge during those

2244
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intimate moments we see many ads for

2245
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enhancement but the side effects include

2246
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death at GCN team we should change the

2247
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2248
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healthy libido pack the brain and heart

2249
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are not the only organs that require a

2250
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healthy vascular system for proper blood

2251
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flow at the right moment go to GCN

2252
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2253
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2254
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2255
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2256
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2257
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2258
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own health care is freedom from

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2260
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self-pay patients that come together to

2261
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2262
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2263
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2264
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2265
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2266
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2268
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2269
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2270
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[Applause]

2271
01:47:53,980 --> 01:47:49,670
welcome back to the para cast the gold

2272
01:47:57,970 --> 01:47:53,990
standard of paranormal radio and now

2273
01:48:01,180 --> 01:47:57,980
here's Jane Steinberg

2274
01:48:06,110 --> 01:48:03,790
so therefore the flatwoods monster

2275
01:48:08,560 --> 01:48:06,120
flatwoods West Virginia point wise

2276
01:48:11,380 --> 01:48:08,570
everything happened in West Virginia any

2277
01:48:14,930 --> 01:48:11,390
relationship connections similarity what

2278
01:48:16,580 --> 01:48:14,940
well I think there is a little bit of

2279
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:16,590
connection of course it is the

2280
01:48:21,680 --> 01:48:20,010
Appalachia area West Virginia you have

2281
01:48:24,890 --> 01:48:21,690
people that are really kind of

2282
01:48:27,740 --> 01:48:24,900
unsophisticated the thing that sets

2283
01:48:31,910 --> 01:48:27,750
apart the flatwoods monster course is

2284
01:48:35,840 --> 01:48:31,920
that it does seem to have a UFO or

2285
01:48:39,740 --> 01:48:35,850
rocket or something in the sky over the

2286
01:48:43,550 --> 01:48:39,750
hill that appeared before the flatwoods

2287
01:48:45,830 --> 01:48:43,560
monster was actually seen and as I

2288
01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:45,840
document in my earlier book Mothman and

2289
01:48:52,910 --> 01:48:48,570
other curious encounters the flatwoods

2290
01:48:57,710 --> 01:48:52,920
monster incident is not alone in its

2291
01:49:01,460 --> 01:48:57,720
currents during that time period we have

2292
01:49:06,580 --> 01:49:01,470
several flatwoods monsters being seen it

2293
01:49:10,640 --> 01:49:06,590
almost as if there was an invasion from

2294
01:49:13,310 --> 01:49:10,650
UFOs so to speak and then big monstrous

2295
01:49:16,700 --> 01:49:13,320
creatures being seen the classic

2296
01:49:20,510 --> 01:49:16,710
flatwoods monster course stood very tall

2297
01:49:24,710 --> 01:49:20,520
you know seven feet tall and it had a

2298
01:49:28,010 --> 01:49:24,720
huge Ace of Spades head that had eyes

2299
01:49:31,220 --> 01:49:28,020
that came through it it seemed to have

2300
01:49:33,440 --> 01:49:31,230
some light source behind it there were

2301
01:49:36,050 --> 01:49:33,450
also some very strange things occurred

2302
01:49:37,610 --> 01:49:36,060
with the dog this group of people that

2303
01:49:41,030 --> 01:49:37,620
went up the hill to see the flatwoods

2304
01:49:42,950 --> 01:49:41,040
monster all raced down it and the dog

2305
01:49:45,950 --> 01:49:42,960
that was with them raced down it jumped

2306
01:49:49,340 --> 01:49:45,960
over a fence drew or went under the

2307
01:49:51,740 --> 01:49:49,350
fence and then got ill you know started

2308
01:49:53,570 --> 01:49:51,750
vomiting in things and I think some of

2309
01:49:56,510 --> 01:49:53,580
the people actually didn't feel too well

2310
01:49:59,020 --> 01:49:56,520
either you didn't have any of those

2311
01:50:01,450 --> 01:49:59,030
kinds of experiences with

2312
01:50:04,149 --> 01:50:01,460
mothman people didn't get sick they

2313
01:50:08,169 --> 01:50:04,159
didn't vomit or anything like that and

2314
01:50:11,470 --> 01:50:08,179
so flatwoods monster really had that

2315
01:50:14,229 --> 01:50:11,480
kind of more physical ramifications it

2316
01:50:18,129 --> 01:50:14,239
kind of reminds me of some of the UFO

2317
01:50:20,399 --> 01:50:18,139
stories that I have read at one time Jim

2318
01:50:23,140 --> 01:50:20,409
Mosely told me something really strange

2319
01:50:26,529 --> 01:50:23,150
and maybe it was one of those times when

2320
01:50:30,040 --> 01:50:26,539
he had more of his vat 69 whiskey than

2321
01:50:32,919 --> 01:50:30,050
he normally did or more of his smoking

2322
01:50:35,379 --> 01:50:32,929
substances and he said when we went up

2323
01:50:38,109 --> 01:50:35,389
there I assume a lot of the witnesses

2324
01:50:40,810 --> 01:50:38,119
were kids right as I recall this is you

2325
01:50:44,470 --> 01:50:40,820
know many years ago one mother and all

2326
01:50:47,770 --> 01:50:44,480
kids all right that they observed I

2327
01:50:50,560 --> 01:50:47,780
don't know a parent two people getting

2328
01:50:53,049 --> 01:50:50,570
it on and that was the original source

2329
01:50:56,680 --> 01:50:53,059
you know like two people cheating on

2330
01:50:58,959 --> 01:50:56,690
their families and that was colored as

2331
01:51:00,669 --> 01:50:58,969
some kind of monster that was Jim's

2332
01:51:03,700 --> 01:51:00,679
interpretation I guess he got it from

2333
01:51:05,649 --> 01:51:03,710
grey Parker never heard that I never

2334
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:05,659
heard it since he mentioned it one time

2335
01:51:10,299 --> 01:51:07,130
and I thought maybe it's just a sick

2336
01:51:13,120 --> 01:51:10,309
humor with a sentence both of those

2337
01:51:15,779 --> 01:51:13,130
individuals did look at the world

2338
01:51:19,260 --> 01:51:15,789
sexually in a way that a lot of us

2339
01:51:22,240 --> 01:51:19,270
didn't approach a lot of these cases so

2340
01:51:24,939 --> 01:51:22,250
could be I don't know Jim a right thing

2341
01:51:28,600 --> 01:51:24,949
about sex and saucers where flying

2342
01:51:31,899 --> 01:51:28,610
saucers somehow represented a substitute

2343
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:31,909
for some kind of sexual activity of

2344
01:51:36,279 --> 01:51:33,770
course then there's also the possibility

2345
01:51:39,609 --> 01:51:36,289
here that some people claiming to have

2346
01:51:41,350 --> 01:51:39,619
been raped by ET having some kind of

2347
01:51:43,810 --> 01:51:41,360
sexual encounter with an

2348
01:51:46,180 --> 01:51:43,820
extraterrestrial were actually sexually

2349
01:51:49,149 --> 01:51:46,190
attacked all right but by a human being

2350
01:51:52,660 --> 01:51:49,159
am the psychological impact either they

2351
01:51:55,919 --> 01:51:52,670
were unwilling to say that or interpret

2352
01:51:57,879 --> 01:51:55,929
it in such a way that it became et I

2353
01:52:00,069 --> 01:51:57,889
really don't know where you're going

2354
01:52:01,959 --> 01:52:00,079
because I remember some of these

2355
01:52:04,779 --> 01:52:01,969
overnight shows that I've been on in

2356
01:52:07,689 --> 01:52:04,789
which people ask me does Bigfoot do anal

2357
01:52:10,720 --> 01:52:07,699
probes I don't want to go I don't think

2358
01:52:13,210 --> 01:52:10,730
that we need to get that far No

2359
01:52:14,680 --> 01:52:13,220
hahaha unless there was a theory here

2360
01:52:17,850 --> 01:52:14,690
that Chris mentioned of course that

2361
01:52:25,200 --> 01:52:17,860
maybe some Bigfoot types were after

2362
01:52:28,420 --> 01:52:25,210
human females right Chris yeah possibly

2363
01:52:30,100 --> 01:52:28,430
actually it's the reverse in my book

2364
01:52:33,070 --> 01:52:30,110
Bigfoot the true story of Apes in

2365
01:52:35,340 --> 01:52:33,080
America I did a statistical study of all

2366
01:52:38,290 --> 01:52:35,350
of those stories about Bigfoot

2367
01:52:42,190 --> 01:52:38,300
kidnappings the majority of them are

2368
01:52:44,860 --> 01:52:42,200
males they're trying to kidnap males

2369
01:52:46,479 --> 01:52:44,870
because there aren't that many male

2370
01:52:48,790 --> 01:52:46,489
Bigfoot around anymore and they're

2371
01:52:51,190 --> 01:52:48,800
trying to take him back to the family

2372
01:52:53,560 --> 01:52:51,200
group to breed with a female big you

2373
01:52:58,300 --> 01:52:53,570
know like an Albert Ostman type scenario

2374
01:53:00,760 --> 01:52:58,310
exactly then we went there okay yeah

2375
01:53:05,650 --> 01:53:00,770
well I you know again it's genes dirty

2376
01:53:07,600 --> 01:53:05,660
mind you're the first person who

2377
01:53:10,300 --> 01:53:07,610
mentioned this Chris I didn't bring it

2378
01:53:12,310 --> 01:53:10,310
up hey you just brought it up I wasn't

2379
01:53:16,600 --> 01:53:12,320
gonna go there but you've already been

2380
01:53:19,479 --> 01:53:16,610
there as all your shows guard this

2381
01:53:21,520 --> 01:53:19,489
direction guys well you know he's not

2382
01:53:25,590 --> 01:53:21,530
called the woody monster he's called the

2383
01:53:33,150 --> 01:53:25,600
flatwoods monster or the Bigfoot

2384
01:53:38,110 --> 01:53:36,100
what you've uh what can of worms you

2385
01:53:40,900 --> 01:53:38,120
opened up there gene you see the real

2386
01:53:43,240 --> 01:53:40,910
thing here to be very seriously no I

2387
01:53:45,340 --> 01:53:43,250
wrote a chapter in my Bigfoot book that

2388
01:53:47,970 --> 01:53:45,350
was called sex and the single Sasquatch

2389
01:53:52,210 --> 01:53:47,980
I got in so much trouble for that

2390
01:53:55,060 --> 01:53:52,220
because you know there's a lot of what I

2391
01:53:58,150 --> 01:53:55,070
was really asking people in all of these

2392
01:54:01,240 --> 01:53:58,160
fields is that they avoid this talk of

2393
01:54:04,840 --> 01:54:01,250
the sexuality of these creatures because

2394
01:54:07,360 --> 01:54:04,850
we're all prudes and as investigators we

2395
01:54:11,590 --> 01:54:07,370
have to be open to listening to the

2396
01:54:15,300 --> 01:54:11,600
eyewitnesses tell us everything and so

2397
01:54:16,600 --> 01:54:15,310
you know whether it's aliens with sex

2398
01:54:19,990 --> 01:54:16,610
Bigfoot

2399
01:54:21,979 --> 01:54:20,000
Mothman I don't know but we had to be

2400
01:54:24,560 --> 01:54:21,989
open to this and this

2401
01:54:28,640 --> 01:54:24,570
so when he started doing that mrs. Jones

2402
01:54:30,799 --> 01:54:28,650
how did that make you feel well it's

2403
01:54:32,689 --> 01:54:30,809
really more the investigators that shy

2404
01:54:35,120 --> 01:54:32,699
away from this they hear people

2405
01:54:37,640 --> 01:54:35,130
describing a Bigfoot penis looking like

2406
01:54:40,489 --> 01:54:37,650
a horse penis and they say oh thank you

2407
01:54:42,020 --> 01:54:40,499
very much I won't write that and we're

2408
01:54:45,140 --> 01:54:42,030
not going to continue that because this

2409
01:54:47,180 --> 01:54:45,150
is Family Radio we can use that word but

2410
01:54:48,890 --> 01:54:47,190
we have to be very careful in its

2411
01:54:51,709 --> 01:54:48,900
implications we're not going to get into

2412
01:54:54,589 --> 01:54:51,719
that obviously that's not happening with

2413
01:54:58,189 --> 01:54:54,599
with Thunderbirds you know we don't have

2414
01:55:01,399 --> 01:54:58,199
thunder birds or Mothman capturing earth

2415
01:55:06,939 --> 01:55:01,409
women now we're going back to gene being

2416
01:55:13,310 --> 01:55:11,330
know the one thing that may hook up for

2417
01:55:16,580 --> 01:55:13,320
you about this is that most of the

2418
01:55:21,080 --> 01:55:16,590
Mothman cases started out in lovers

2419
01:55:25,069 --> 01:55:21,090
lanes yeah because the very good point

2420
01:55:28,729 --> 01:55:25,079
Oregon energy may you know the activity

2421
01:55:31,339 --> 01:55:28,739
the energy the sexuality the for people

2422
01:55:33,739 --> 01:55:31,349
in the original car right they were all

2423
01:55:36,739 --> 01:55:33,749
making out they were all they were two

2424
01:55:40,100 --> 01:55:36,749
couples they were both married couples

2425
01:55:42,879 --> 01:55:40,110
in their 20s who actually were going to

2426
01:55:47,989 --> 01:55:42,889
look at Lovers Lane to see if they could

2427
01:55:50,120 --> 01:55:47,999
bother other bother teenagers now the

2428
01:55:52,489 --> 01:55:50,130
one thing that I found and I wrote about

2429
01:55:54,770 --> 01:55:52,499
this and in one of the captions or one

2430
01:55:57,259 --> 01:55:54,780
of the pictures in my new book if you

2431
01:56:00,250 --> 01:55:57,269
look carefully at that original picture

2432
01:56:03,229 --> 01:56:00,260
of the four eyewitnesses there's another

2433
01:56:06,129 --> 01:56:03,239
individual in the background it's the

2434
01:56:09,109 --> 01:56:06,139
cousin of one of the individuals that

2435
01:56:12,140 --> 01:56:09,119
everybody has avoided interviewing and

2436
01:56:14,330 --> 01:56:12,150
nobody's ever talked to and I think

2437
01:56:17,660 --> 01:56:14,340
that's there was actually five people in

2438
01:56:21,259 --> 01:56:17,670
the car not four people and they were on

2439
01:56:24,799 --> 01:56:21,269
a mission of you know sexual mission if

2440
01:56:28,399 --> 01:56:24,809
so does me well you know there is

2441
01:56:30,589 --> 01:56:28,409
something to what you're saying I I

2442
01:56:34,850 --> 01:56:30,599
recall the DuPont monster for instance

2443
01:56:37,370 --> 01:56:34,860
in Illinois shows up at lovers lanes

2444
01:56:40,430 --> 01:56:37,380
I think wasn't Momo some of the early

2445
01:56:42,470 --> 01:56:40,440
Momo sightings in the outside of

2446
01:56:46,120 --> 01:56:42,480
Ellsbury Missouri I think they were also

2447
01:56:49,430 --> 01:56:46,130
lover Lovers Lane sightings we have a

2448
01:56:51,820 --> 01:56:49,440
host Lurie of reports here in Arizona

2449
01:56:55,720 --> 01:56:51,830
back in 2007 I think

2450
01:56:57,530 --> 01:56:55,730
2005 where Fort Apache reservation

2451
01:57:00,440 --> 01:56:57,540
officials were getting calls there

2452
01:57:02,330 --> 01:57:00,450
peeping tom bigfoot who was watching

2453
01:57:05,000 --> 01:57:02,340
people getting it on in their bedrooms

2454
01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:05,010
which actually led to a sighting by one

2455
01:57:11,180 --> 01:57:08,610
of the teams of officers who replying to

2456
01:57:14,690 --> 01:57:11,190
a 911 call they just happened to be just

2457
01:57:16,780 --> 01:57:14,700
within yards of the driveway so that

2458
01:57:18,950 --> 01:57:16,790
that that's the point that I've often

2459
01:57:21,650 --> 01:57:18,960
felt that there is something to that

2460
01:57:25,760 --> 01:57:21,660
that there is some possibly chemical

2461
01:57:28,430 --> 01:57:25,770
hormonal attraction with humans having

2462
01:57:37,850 --> 01:57:28,440
sex I think we should start moving away

2463
01:57:39,710 --> 01:57:37,860
from that you're in the para cast attack

2464
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of the rock AIDS has been well received

2465
01:57:43,730 --> 01:57:42,240
by critics and readers alike it's a

2466
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thrill a minute story you'll never

2467
01:57:49,130 --> 01:57:46,560
forget a former US military intelligence

2468
01:57:51,800 --> 01:57:49,140
officer is haunted by intense dreams

2469
01:57:54,050 --> 01:57:51,810
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

2470
01:57:56,720 --> 01:57:54,060
help after a terrible battle in outer

2471
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space but the dreams turn out to be true

2472
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and thrust him into a telepathic love

2473
01:58:03,860 --> 01:58:01,080
affair with a woman who's far away

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planet is intent on destroying the earth

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hapless heroes against powerful

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fanatical enemies that threaten the

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lives of freedom loving beings

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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

2566
02:01:48,710 --> 02:01:45,030
comment or question about the para cast

2567
02:01:52,139 --> 02:01:48,720
sent it to News at the para cast com

2568
02:01:53,939 --> 02:01:52,149
that's news at the para cast

2569
02:01:57,419 --> 02:01:53,949
and don't forget to visit our famous

2570
02:02:02,159 --> 02:01:57,429
para cast community forums at forum dot

2571
02:02:04,799 --> 02:02:02,169
the para cast dot-com and you see folks

2572
02:02:08,580 --> 02:02:04,809
it's not something I just happen to

2573
02:02:11,580 --> 02:02:08,590
raise or explore well there's also John

2574
02:02:15,049 --> 02:02:11,590
keel did a whole segment on the grinning

2575
02:02:18,619 --> 02:02:15,059
men the grinning men would be tall

2576
02:02:23,879 --> 02:02:18,629
creatures or entities that would look

2577
02:02:26,399 --> 02:02:23,889
over the tops of the windows into you

2578
02:02:29,459 --> 02:02:26,409
know become a peeping tom and then

2579
02:02:31,770 --> 02:02:29,469
remember Jim Brandon weird America and

2580
02:02:36,239 --> 02:02:31,780
all of those books oh yeah he actually

2581
02:02:38,790 --> 02:02:36,249
felt that trailers were a magnetic spot

2582
02:02:41,429 --> 02:02:38,800
for all of these creatures because the

2583
02:02:45,419 --> 02:02:41,439
different layers of insulation and metal

2584
02:02:47,609 --> 02:02:45,429
was like a poor dog producer you know

2585
02:02:50,339 --> 02:02:47,619
William Reich that there was actually

2586
02:02:53,819 --> 02:02:50,349
the sexual energy being caught up in

2587
02:02:57,169 --> 02:02:53,829
trailers was sending out certain waves

2588
02:03:00,029 --> 02:02:57,179
to you know Bigfoot or grinning man or

2589
02:03:03,109 --> 02:03:00,039
Mothman or whatever and that they were

2590
02:03:05,100 --> 02:03:03,119
major attraction so yeah I definitely

2591
02:03:08,339 --> 02:03:05,110
understand what you're saying from all

2592
02:03:10,739 --> 02:03:08,349
your cases alright now this is an

2593
02:03:12,899 --> 02:03:10,749
interesting question here is their

2594
02:03:15,679 --> 02:03:12,909
evidence then except in certain

2595
02:03:20,339 --> 02:03:15,689
instances that that kind of energy may

2596
02:03:23,939 --> 02:03:20,349
cause these weird things to happen do

2597
02:03:26,909 --> 02:03:23,949
UFOs hang around lovers lanes at all yes

2598
02:03:29,729 --> 02:03:26,919
yes they do and even more so if you look

2599
02:03:33,199 --> 02:03:29,739
at some of the books about Wilhelm

2600
02:03:36,989 --> 02:03:33,209
Reich's facility up in Rangeley Maine

2601
02:03:43,040 --> 02:03:36,999
there were a lot of UFOs photographed

2602
02:03:45,959 --> 02:03:43,050
overhead in The Oregonian or he actually

2603
02:03:48,479 --> 02:03:45,969
produced cloud busters and wrote books

2604
02:03:51,359 --> 02:03:48,489
about the UFOs that were attracted to

2605
02:03:54,119 --> 02:03:51,369
this energy well as I said again anytime

2606
02:03:57,359 --> 02:03:54,129
you get into something such as hybrid

2607
02:04:02,729 --> 02:03:57,369
aliens involved with abductions you're

2608
02:04:04,889 --> 02:04:02,739
into this full square right and who

2609
02:04:06,000 --> 02:04:04,899
knows where that goes I don't think

2610
02:04:08,640 --> 02:04:06,010
there's any alien

2611
02:04:10,890 --> 02:04:08,650
Bigfoot hybrids though and a lot of

2612
02:04:14,430 --> 02:04:10,900
people in the Bigfoot field have been

2613
02:04:17,339 --> 02:04:14,440
really upset by a lot of the earlier DNA

2614
02:04:20,549 --> 02:04:17,349
studies where they were kind of cut

2615
02:04:23,189 --> 02:04:20,559
short by somebody saying that Bigfoot

2616
02:04:26,729 --> 02:04:23,199
were part angels' that came down and

2617
02:04:28,740 --> 02:04:26,739
bred with human beings so it seems like

2618
02:04:33,890 --> 02:04:28,750
it was just another version of your

2619
02:04:38,370 --> 02:04:33,900
alien hybrids the Nephilim oh yeah if

2620
02:04:40,229 --> 02:04:38,380
there could possibly be a human Bigfoot

2621
02:04:43,770 --> 02:04:40,239
hybrid wouldn't they have to be very

2622
02:04:47,129 --> 02:04:43,780
closely related genetically well hybrids

2623
02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:47,139
would be but most hybrids are sterile I

2624
02:04:53,759 --> 02:04:51,610
mean like mules and stuff but then again

2625
02:04:55,830 --> 02:04:53,769
we're looking at me and Earth on some of

2626
02:04:58,979 --> 02:04:55,840
the other things that are coming about

2627
02:05:02,629 --> 02:04:58,989
in anthropology and paleontology we're

2628
02:05:06,290 --> 02:05:02,639
actually saying that maybe the

2629
02:05:08,640 --> 02:05:06,300
inbreeding led to nubert new species I

2630
02:05:12,089 --> 02:05:08,650
don't know at least we're not talking

2631
02:05:13,799 --> 02:05:12,099
about snippy right no no about snippy

2632
02:05:18,509 --> 02:05:13,809
someone wrote to Chris this week about

2633
02:05:20,069 --> 02:05:18,519
the snippy update right yeah yeah well

2634
02:05:24,029 --> 02:05:20,079
somebody has the bright idea of taking

2635
02:05:26,759 --> 02:05:24,039
an altimeter pressure fuse in other

2636
02:05:29,459 --> 02:05:26,769
words when if the cows taken up in the

2637
02:05:33,330 --> 02:05:29,469
air strap a 2,000 pound bomb to it and

2638
02:05:36,120 --> 02:05:33,340
how they fused that's that goes off if

2639
02:05:38,250 --> 02:05:36,130
it's if the the pressure the air

2640
02:05:41,370 --> 02:05:38,260
pressure changes like going up in the

2641
02:05:45,720 --> 02:05:41,380
air and I didn't think that that was too

2642
02:05:49,200 --> 02:05:45,730
practical other than possibly being

2643
02:05:52,529 --> 02:05:49,210
illegal a bunch of cows walking around

2644
02:05:55,919 --> 02:05:52,539
with 2,000 pound bombs it just didn't

2645
02:05:57,720 --> 02:05:55,929
seem very practical you know Chris was

2646
02:06:00,629 --> 02:05:57,730
one of the first people that mentioned

2647
02:06:03,240 --> 02:06:00,639
Jerry Clark and I in a book when you're

2648
02:06:05,220 --> 02:06:03,250
20 years old and you write your first or

2649
02:06:08,129 --> 02:06:05,230
second book and you don't know that

2650
02:06:11,759 --> 02:06:08,139
you're gonna you know live this long and

2651
02:06:15,180 --> 02:06:11,769
write 40 books I will always remember

2652
02:06:17,720 --> 02:06:15,190
that time I first saw my name in some

2653
02:06:21,050 --> 02:06:17,730
other 40 ins book

2654
02:06:24,439 --> 02:06:21,060
it was my book really yes serious Valley

2655
02:06:25,970 --> 02:06:24,449
probably yep mysterious Valley which I

2656
02:06:27,830 --> 02:06:25,980
didn't even know about your book until a

2657
02:06:29,810 --> 02:06:27,840
couple years later when I got accused of

2658
02:06:35,030 --> 02:06:29,820
stealing the name from a mysterious

2659
02:06:37,640 --> 02:06:35,040
America 283

2660
02:06:39,620 --> 02:06:37,650
when did mysterious Valley come out 96

2661
02:06:41,750 --> 02:06:39,630
oh yeah okay

2662
02:06:43,609 --> 02:06:41,760
you stole the name no I'm just kidding

2663
02:06:46,310 --> 02:06:43,619
but I think you mentioned some of our

2664
02:06:49,700 --> 02:06:46,320
earlier books in there I did yeah and it

2665
02:06:52,910 --> 02:06:49,710
was very very special because you know

2666
02:06:56,930 --> 02:06:52,920
you you try very hard in this field to

2667
02:07:00,260 --> 02:06:56,940
be friendly with everyone and and of

2668
02:07:03,530 --> 02:07:00,270
course the more that you write the more

2669
02:07:07,280 --> 02:07:03,540
enemies you make and now with Internet

2670
02:07:09,979 --> 02:07:07,290
there's so many trolls so many people

2671
02:07:13,339 --> 02:07:09,989
saying I've stole things from them so to

2672
02:07:16,250 --> 02:07:13,349
even like read John Key oh I knew who he

2673
02:07:20,570 --> 02:07:16,260
was talking about because I gave him 1/3

2674
02:07:24,919 --> 02:07:20,580
of his book for creatures of the strange

2675
02:07:27,050 --> 02:07:24,929
and strange time and time and yeah he's

2676
02:07:30,229 --> 02:07:27,060
always forgot that I'd given him others

2677
02:07:32,959 --> 02:07:30,239
chapters and yet it comes around it's

2678
02:07:35,359 --> 02:07:32,969
just getting very confusing Ivan

2679
02:07:37,939 --> 02:07:35,369
Sanderson died in 1965 once had a

2680
02:07:39,770 --> 02:07:37,949
conversation and he told me there was

2681
02:07:42,260 --> 02:07:39,780
only five people in the country that

2682
02:07:44,359 --> 02:07:42,270
were interested Bigfoot and nowadays

2683
02:07:47,450 --> 02:07:44,369
it's just an explosion of people

2684
02:07:50,959 --> 02:07:47,460
interested in Mothman Bigfoot UFOs

2685
02:07:52,760 --> 02:07:50,969
everything and who could have imagined

2686
02:07:54,950 --> 02:07:52,770
you know back in the 60s that anybody

2687
02:07:57,439 --> 02:07:54,960
would care about anything we were

2688
02:07:59,839 --> 02:07:57,449
interested in her writing yeah yeah

2689
02:08:01,820 --> 02:07:59,849
that's true I remember thinking I was

2690
02:08:04,879 --> 02:08:01,830
the only one for a lot of years yeah

2691
02:08:06,830 --> 02:08:04,889
yeah and so it's it's kind of nice the

2692
02:08:09,320 --> 02:08:06,840
Internet does have its downsides but it

2693
02:08:12,979 --> 02:08:09,330
also has an instant connection to to

2694
02:08:15,350 --> 02:08:12,989
people that's very reinforcing and

2695
02:08:17,540 --> 02:08:15,360
humbling yeah good point

2696
02:08:18,950 --> 02:08:17,550
well I mentioned Jerry Clark on my last

2697
02:08:21,339 --> 02:08:18,960
book but he's probably not gonna be too

2698
02:08:26,479 --> 02:08:21,349
happy about it

2699
02:08:29,300 --> 02:08:26,489
I Jerry and I are still friends and

2700
02:08:30,520 --> 02:08:29,310
still correspondence and I I still like

2701
02:08:32,830 --> 02:08:30,530
him a lot and I feel

2702
02:08:35,410 --> 02:08:32,840
what buttons I can push on him get him

2703
02:08:39,279 --> 02:08:35,420
going well I took his old his whole

2704
02:08:43,120 --> 02:08:39,289
comment that the Alexander Hamilton calf

2705
02:08:46,600 --> 02:08:43,130
abduction case in 1897 was was the

2706
02:08:48,729 --> 02:08:46,610
result of a liar's club contest and I

2707
02:08:51,760 --> 02:08:48,739
totally debunked him on that I found all

2708
02:08:55,620 --> 02:08:51,770
his original articles and totally blew

2709
02:08:58,149 --> 02:08:55,630
blew his is assertions out of the water

2710
02:09:00,279 --> 02:08:58,159
well I always wondered when that came

2711
02:09:02,770 --> 02:09:00,289
out because of course with a lot of sea

2712
02:09:04,209 --> 02:09:02,780
serpent and Bigfoot stories you can

2713
02:09:07,510 --> 02:09:04,219
always find somebody in another

2714
02:09:12,819 --> 02:09:07,520
newspaper that will say this is a lie or

2715
02:09:15,520 --> 02:09:12,829
this is made up the whole Jocko the case

2716
02:09:17,770 --> 02:09:15,530
of the right the British Columbia

2717
02:09:20,200 --> 02:09:17,780
railroad right ooh

2718
02:09:22,390 --> 02:09:20,210
one person said that was a newspaper

2719
02:09:24,910 --> 02:09:22,400
hoax and yet you can find other people

2720
02:09:28,029 --> 02:09:24,920
saying well maybe there was something to

2721
02:09:30,220 --> 02:09:28,039
it and this one paper was just trying to

2722
02:09:32,709 --> 02:09:30,230
decrease the circulation of the other

2723
02:09:34,870 --> 02:09:32,719
one by saying it was a hoax and that

2724
02:09:37,510 --> 02:09:34,880
happened a lot back in the old days yeah

2725
02:09:39,430 --> 02:09:37,520
that kind of journalism well I was

2726
02:09:42,700 --> 02:09:39,440
talking about Jerry quoting an article

2727
02:09:45,279 --> 02:09:42,710
where where Hamilton supposedly admitted

2728
02:09:46,750 --> 02:09:45,289
that it was a lie and blah blah and I

2729
02:09:48,220 --> 02:09:46,760
found that article and he does nothing

2730
02:09:51,720 --> 02:09:48,230
of the kind

2731
02:09:54,430 --> 02:09:51,730
and that was the big that was the big

2732
02:09:57,729 --> 02:09:54,440
that was the article that he was basing

2733
02:09:59,649 --> 02:09:57,739
a lot of his his conclusions on and I

2734
02:10:03,279 --> 02:09:59,659
found the actual original copy of the

2735
02:10:05,260 --> 02:10:03,289
article of Michael a microfiche article

2736
02:10:10,000 --> 02:10:05,270
and it didn't say anything of the kind

2737
02:10:11,669 --> 02:10:10,010
in fact it it actually it was done in

2738
02:10:14,740 --> 02:10:11,679
such a way it actually said the opposite

2739
02:10:16,600 --> 02:10:14,750
we are gonna have some opposite messages

2740
02:10:18,910 --> 02:10:16,610
right now and then we'll get back

2741
02:10:24,510 --> 02:10:18,920
straight ahead with Lauren Jean and

2742
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were some people thought so sorry we

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recognized you from those new genex

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commercials oh yeah that's great

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more energetic I wish my husband would

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founder of the grow Network which is an

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online community of people who produce

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their own food and medicine we are

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really in the backyard self-reliance if

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you want this lifestyle I suggest your

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first step be to learn some basic home

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medicine just the other day my 18 year

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old son came to me and said mama I got a

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sore throat can you fix me up and I said

2838
02:14:04,850 --> 02:14:02,880
sure Ryan and in about 24 hours he was

2839
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better the best home medicine for you to

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start out with is garlic it's an amazing

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natural antibiotic and I can show you

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how to use garlic to handle ear

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02:14:14,750 --> 02:14:12,630
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as a way for you to get to know a little

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bit but more about me in the grow

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Network I've written up an easy

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introduction on how to use garlic it's

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at GC and wellness.com now the station

2849
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manager told me that I needed to say the

2850
02:14:29,810 --> 02:14:27,659
URL at least twice even though it feels

2851
02:14:31,640 --> 02:14:29,820
kind of weird but if you're interested

2852
02:14:32,120 --> 02:14:31,650
in backyard self-reliance you were one

2853
02:14:36,109 --> 02:14:32,130
of us

2854
02:14:42,940 --> 02:14:36,119
go to WWE CN wellness.com and let's

2855
02:14:48,860 --> 02:14:46,430
hi this is Joshua p1 author of the poor

2856
02:14:51,370 --> 02:14:48,870
vans paranormal and you're listening to

2857
02:15:03,770 --> 02:14:51,380
the podcast the gold standard of

2858
02:15:05,600 --> 02:15:03,780
paranormal radio yeah speaking of

2859
02:15:07,940 --> 02:15:05,610
looking to original sources and finding

2860
02:15:10,340 --> 02:15:07,950
them to be so totally different I know

2861
02:15:12,530 --> 02:15:10,350
the Kevin Randall has done a lot of that

2862
02:15:15,230 --> 02:15:12,540
going back to original sources for UFO

2863
02:15:17,120 --> 02:15:15,240
cases not just what's in the book but

2864
02:15:18,980 --> 02:15:17,130
what the book refers to which quite

2865
02:15:22,460 --> 02:15:18,990
often may be something in another book

2866
02:15:24,140 --> 02:15:22,470
but finding the original source after it

2867
02:15:28,100 --> 02:15:24,150
goes through like you know three or four

2868
02:15:30,470 --> 02:15:28,110
authors it's kind of like this old stick

2869
02:15:32,120 --> 02:15:30,480
that the late Steve Allen used to do on

2870
02:15:34,670 --> 02:15:32,130
this TV show where you have somebody

2871
02:15:37,750 --> 02:15:34,680
tell a joke whisper it in somebody's ear

2872
02:15:40,730 --> 02:15:37,760
and the job of that person would be to

2873
02:15:43,100 --> 02:15:40,740
repeat the same joke whisper it in

2874
02:15:45,770 --> 02:15:43,110
somebody's ear and they go through ten

2875
02:15:48,890 --> 02:15:45,780
generations of this and by the time they

2876
02:15:52,010 --> 02:15:48,900
got to the tenth generation they asked

2877
02:15:54,110 --> 02:15:52,020
that person who received the distilled

2878
02:15:57,770 --> 02:15:54,120
version of the original joke to repeat

2879
02:16:00,890 --> 02:15:57,780
it and had very very vague resemblance

2880
02:16:05,780 --> 02:16:00,900
to the original yeah the old telegram

2881
02:16:06,530 --> 02:16:05,790
game we are using telephone telegram I'm

2882
02:16:09,370 --> 02:16:06,540
older than you

2883
02:16:11,420 --> 02:16:09,380
maybe so what's the new books name Chris

2884
02:16:14,230 --> 02:16:11,430
well I came out a couple years ago

2885
02:16:17,060 --> 02:16:14,240
stocking the heard it's the kind of the

2886
02:16:22,340 --> 02:16:17,070
encyclopedia sort of go to textbook on

2887
02:16:24,080 --> 02:16:22,350
the cattle cattle death great lengths in

2888
02:16:26,900 --> 02:16:24,090
there to prove that there was something

2889
02:16:28,850 --> 02:16:26,910
to the case I didn't set out to do that

2890
02:16:29,990 --> 02:16:28,860
it's just the way that when I started

2891
02:16:33,169 --> 02:16:30,000
checking further into the case and

2892
02:16:34,580 --> 02:16:33,179
started checking quotes and stuff stuff

2893
02:16:37,610 --> 02:16:34,590
just didn't wasn't adding up so I'd

2894
02:16:40,299 --> 02:16:37,620
continue digging and and lo and behold I

2895
02:16:44,810 --> 02:16:40,309
found out that not only was the case

2896
02:16:47,709 --> 02:16:44,820
probably real but 12 members of the town

2897
02:16:49,940 --> 02:16:47,719
the bankers the lawyers the you know the

2898
02:16:53,180 --> 02:16:49,950
professional people all signed

2899
02:16:54,410 --> 02:16:53,190
affidavits to the honesty of Alexander

2900
02:16:56,450 --> 02:16:54,420
Hamilton

2901
02:16:59,469 --> 02:16:56,460
by the opposite of you know being in

2902
02:17:03,400 --> 02:16:59,479
liar's club yeah and that's why in

2903
02:17:07,160 --> 02:17:03,410
Mothman minor Mothman book winkles

2904
02:17:09,080 --> 02:17:07,170
chapter looks at eels book because it

2905
02:17:11,810 --> 02:17:09,090
does have mistakes in it and you know

2906
02:17:13,660 --> 02:17:11,820
you go back to original sources and you

2907
02:17:16,070 --> 02:17:13,670
get rid of all of that contamination

2908
02:17:18,259 --> 02:17:16,080
yeah you do a great job of doing that of

2909
02:17:20,390 --> 02:17:18,269
going in there and and really digging

2910
02:17:22,250 --> 02:17:20,400
down drilling down and where where all

2911
02:17:25,160 --> 02:17:22,260
the particular information comes up and

2912
02:17:27,469 --> 02:17:25,170
then you it's amazing now how much

2913
02:17:31,129 --> 02:17:27,479
disparity there is between one version

2914
02:17:34,219 --> 02:17:31,139
and the next it's it's good to get to

2915
02:17:35,750 --> 02:17:34,229
call those things all these facts and in

2916
02:17:38,299 --> 02:17:35,760
people's quotes and everything straight

2917
02:17:40,190 --> 02:17:38,309
I think it's really important that the

2918
02:17:41,690 --> 02:17:40,200
more work is done by up-and-coming

2919
02:17:43,669 --> 02:17:41,700
investigators and researchers and

2920
02:17:47,450 --> 02:17:43,679
writers out there to to get stuff as

2921
02:17:49,490 --> 02:17:47,460
accurately as possible down and a lot of

2922
02:17:52,690 --> 02:17:49,500
that has to do with getting the the

2923
02:17:56,270 --> 02:17:52,700
actual original quotes get them down

2924
02:17:58,910 --> 02:17:56,280
read them back to the witness before you

2925
02:18:01,219 --> 02:17:58,920
go on which is something that I found

2926
02:18:03,049 --> 02:18:01,229
myself doing more and more is riding

2927
02:18:05,150 --> 02:18:03,059
down a quote and then reading it back to

2928
02:18:07,160 --> 02:18:05,160
them to make sure that you got it right

2929
02:18:08,390 --> 02:18:07,170
and you know nine times out of ten I

2930
02:18:10,490 --> 02:18:08,400
would but then there occasionally

2931
02:18:12,560 --> 02:18:10,500
someone would say well maybe if you say

2932
02:18:14,600 --> 02:18:12,570
it this way it's more accurate or or why

2933
02:18:16,100 --> 02:18:14,610
don't you change that to this it gives

2934
02:18:18,440 --> 02:18:16,110
them an opportunity to become as

2935
02:18:20,450 --> 02:18:18,450
accurate as they can as well and that

2936
02:18:22,250 --> 02:18:20,460
way in the same way the release forms

2937
02:18:24,500 --> 02:18:22,260
when when your lawyers for your

2938
02:18:25,879 --> 02:18:24,510
publisher is saying well you mentioned

2939
02:18:28,280 --> 02:18:25,889
this person's name you got to get a

2940
02:18:30,230 --> 02:18:28,290
release form from them and all my books

2941
02:18:32,919 --> 02:18:30,240
what I would do is I'd write down and

2942
02:18:34,910 --> 02:18:32,929
send to them the exact language

2943
02:18:37,129 --> 02:18:34,920
languaging that would be used in their

2944
02:18:39,379 --> 02:18:37,139
quote and ask them to sign off on it and

2945
02:18:41,600 --> 02:18:39,389
sign the release form so people were not

2946
02:18:43,490 --> 02:18:41,610
only giving me permission to use their

2947
02:18:46,370 --> 02:18:43,500
name and use a quote but they were

2948
02:18:48,679 --> 02:18:46,380
signing off on the actual quote yeah

2949
02:18:52,009 --> 02:18:48,689
that way you're eliminating all sorts of

2950
02:18:55,190 --> 02:18:52,019
potential problems down the road oh yeah

2951
02:18:58,429 --> 02:18:55,200
yeah and that's why I really encouraged

2952
02:19:01,969 --> 02:18:58,439
young up-and-coming cryptozoologists in

2953
02:19:04,429 --> 02:19:01,979
training like : - really not rehash old

2954
02:19:07,370 --> 02:19:04,439
stories but really go back either

2955
02:19:08,060 --> 02:19:07,380
develop their own new sources develop

2956
02:19:10,430 --> 02:19:08,070
new stories

2957
02:19:13,041 --> 02:19:10,440
from new cases or if you're going to

2958
02:19:15,320 --> 02:19:13,051
deal with an old case go back to the

2959
02:19:18,200 --> 02:19:15,330
original people or the original sources

2960
02:19:20,380 --> 02:19:18,210
a lot of people of course have died the

2961
02:19:23,090 --> 02:19:20,390
original newspaper articles or

2962
02:19:26,210 --> 02:19:23,100
affidavits or things like even police

2963
02:19:28,490 --> 02:19:26,220
reports that weren't really looked at

2964
02:19:31,640 --> 02:19:28,500
back then some of those are online and

2965
02:19:34,250 --> 02:19:31,650
it's good to do that yeah it puts your

2966
02:19:36,560 --> 02:19:34,260
work into a little bit more a higher

2967
02:19:38,120 --> 02:19:36,570
regard and also like I said it

2968
02:19:39,230 --> 02:19:38,130
alleviates all sorts of potential

2969
02:19:41,660 --> 02:19:39,240
problems down the road

2970
02:19:43,100 --> 02:19:41,670
you know I've I've always felt that if

2971
02:19:46,420 --> 02:19:43,110
you're gonna include somebody's name

2972
02:19:49,751 --> 02:19:46,430
it's got to be a positive thing for them

2973
02:19:52,850 --> 02:19:49,761
as well as you know helping bolster your

2974
02:19:54,230 --> 02:19:52,860
work it's also giving that person a

2975
02:19:56,211 --> 02:19:54,240
chance to go on the record and

2976
02:19:58,940 --> 02:19:56,221
especially law enforcement and public

2977
02:20:00,171 --> 02:19:58,950
officials I think it's it's doubly

2978
02:20:02,180 --> 02:20:00,181
important to make sure you get

2979
02:20:04,850 --> 02:20:02,190
everything accurate in and give them the

2980
02:20:07,280 --> 02:20:04,860
option of signing off one on something

2981
02:20:10,011 --> 02:20:07,290
or or remaining anonymous it's kind of a

2982
02:20:11,360 --> 02:20:10,021
dance that we do out there and trying to

2983
02:20:13,730 --> 02:20:11,370
get people to go on the record we want

2984
02:20:15,051 --> 02:20:13,740
them on the record but you know if you

2985
02:20:17,270 --> 02:20:15,061
can't get on the record at least be

2986
02:20:19,930 --> 02:20:17,280
accurate with their quotes because in

2987
02:20:22,160 --> 02:20:19,940
fact if we're writing a book that's

2988
02:20:26,301 --> 02:20:22,170
monsters and cryptids and all these

2989
02:20:28,551 --> 02:20:26,311
other things in it we also use these law

2990
02:20:30,830 --> 02:20:28,561
enforcement people and ministers and

2991
02:20:33,801 --> 02:20:30,840
teachers as some of the most credible

2992
02:20:35,930 --> 02:20:33,811
witnesses right it may be a fallacy

2993
02:20:37,820 --> 02:20:35,940
because I think some of the truck

2994
02:20:40,461 --> 02:20:37,830
drivers and the housewives and house

2995
02:20:44,591 --> 02:20:40,471
husbands and and you know other people

2996
02:20:46,940 --> 02:20:44,601
that are just kind of mundane to most

2997
02:20:50,120 --> 02:20:46,950
individuals that are trying to be so

2998
02:20:53,450 --> 02:20:50,130
skeptical actually give the best detail

2999
02:20:55,580 --> 02:20:53,460
sometimes yeah we all of that and we get

3000
02:20:59,060 --> 02:20:55,590
that and then we use them in our books

3001
02:21:02,001 --> 02:20:59,070
just say this person said that and they

3002
02:21:04,580 --> 02:21:02,011
were credible so we have to be

3003
02:21:07,940 --> 02:21:04,590
respectful of them yeah I found that

3004
02:21:10,970 --> 02:21:07,950
outdoors people hunters hikers climbers

3005
02:21:13,011 --> 02:21:10,980
they also make very very good witnesses

3006
02:21:15,261 --> 02:21:13,021
because there's a much more much more

3007
02:21:18,230 --> 02:21:15,271
attentive and much more aware of their

3008
02:21:20,060 --> 02:21:18,240
surroundings right and boaters for sea

3009
02:21:21,260 --> 02:21:20,070
serpents and things like that so the

3010
02:21:23,359 --> 02:21:21,270
person that knows their

3011
02:21:25,849 --> 02:21:23,369
environment the best in whatever way

3012
02:21:27,979 --> 02:21:25,859
like that's a truck drivers that I've

3013
02:21:30,019 --> 02:21:27,989
interviewed about long-distance truck

3014
02:21:32,240 --> 02:21:30,029
drivers that see black panthers crossing

3015
02:21:34,099 --> 02:21:32,250
the roads and stuff like that some are

3016
02:21:35,960 --> 02:21:34,109
the best I would know these guys they

3017
02:21:38,479 --> 02:21:35,970
drive you know thousands of miles a week

3018
02:21:41,479 --> 02:21:38,489
so yeah they'll definitely notice

3019
02:21:44,929 --> 02:21:41,489
something that sticks out no that's not

3020
02:21:47,689 --> 02:21:44,939
normal like a panther sighting I don't

3021
02:21:53,540 --> 02:21:47,699
know about the credibility of 14 writers

3022
02:21:56,300 --> 02:21:53,550
and radio show hosts though that's a

3023
02:21:59,960 --> 02:21:56,310
lifelong pursuit of you know to get that

3024
02:22:01,870 --> 02:21:59,970
credibility I just got a case that was

3025
02:22:04,519 --> 02:22:01,880
very interesting it was a cow that

3026
02:22:06,229 --> 02:22:04,529
totally reminded me you brought up

3027
02:22:09,260 --> 02:22:06,239
snippy earlier reminded me of snippy I

3028
02:22:10,639 --> 02:22:09,270
mean at all the the the lips were there

3029
02:22:12,050 --> 02:22:10,649
at the very tip and the tip of the nose

3030
02:22:14,540 --> 02:22:12,060
but everything else was gone to the

3031
02:22:16,340 --> 02:22:14,550
shoulders and uh and it did look like a

3032
02:22:18,319 --> 02:22:16,350
cat kill it looked like a cat it brought

3033
02:22:24,229 --> 02:22:18,329
it in right at the base of the neck

3034
02:22:26,960 --> 02:22:24,239
where it met the the back and this is

3035
02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:26,970
the case that's coming out of I think

3036
02:22:32,929 --> 02:22:29,210
Panama City Florida

3037
02:22:35,359 --> 02:22:32,939
but you mentioned cats and I'm sure

3038
02:22:37,939 --> 02:22:35,369
looks like a cat killed to me like a

3039
02:22:39,950 --> 02:22:37,949
Jaguar or something got this thing what

3040
02:22:42,639 --> 02:22:39,960
should send you pictures and maybe you

3041
02:22:45,229 --> 02:22:42,649
could take a look at it for me and help

3042
02:22:47,179 --> 02:22:45,239
help me advise these people because

3043
02:22:48,439 --> 02:22:47,189
they're pretty freaked out it's eight

3044
02:22:49,910 --> 02:22:48,449
acres right in the middle of a

3045
02:22:51,620 --> 02:22:49,920
residential area and nobody heard a

3046
02:22:54,819 --> 02:22:51,630
thing dogs didn't freak out horses

3047
02:22:57,710 --> 02:22:54,829
didn't freak out and this thing got

3048
02:23:00,080 --> 02:22:57,720
really horribly attacked it's pretty

3049
02:23:03,229 --> 02:23:00,090
inexplicable how it could happen I know

3050
02:23:05,689 --> 02:23:03,239
the Florida Panthers are there they

3051
02:23:07,969 --> 02:23:05,699
really know where every one of those are

3052
02:23:11,149 --> 02:23:07,979
in Florida so that might be an angle to

3053
02:23:14,090 --> 02:23:11,159
look at yeah I I did I did I'm in the

3054
02:23:15,580 --> 02:23:14,100
midst of doing that and or Jaguars too

3055
02:23:18,590 --> 02:23:15,590
there are some Jaguars down there

3056
02:23:20,330 --> 02:23:18,600
Jaguars are smaller though I don't think

3057
02:23:21,130 --> 02:23:20,340
Jaguars gonna be attacking a full-grown

3058
02:23:25,519 --> 02:23:21,140
cow

3059
02:23:27,040 --> 02:23:25,529
yeah well Jaguars are jagged Mondays or

3060
02:23:30,139 --> 02:23:27,050
whatever they are they're spotted cats

3061
02:23:34,250 --> 02:23:30,149
okay yeah I think they have Jaguars down

3062
02:23:35,179 --> 02:23:34,260
there they aren't supposed to know that

3063
02:23:37,689 --> 02:23:35,189
no they may be

3064
02:23:40,460 --> 02:23:37,699
scaped leopards there's all new

3065
02:23:42,800 --> 02:23:40,470
population down there yeah now leopard

3066
02:23:44,960 --> 02:23:42,810
could bring down a cow oh yeah they're

3067
02:23:48,460 --> 02:23:44,970
big enough they bring it's just a weird

3068
02:23:53,319 --> 02:23:48,470
case I haven't seen a case like it in in

3069
02:23:57,710 --> 02:23:53,329
20-plus years so I got I'll go ahead and

3070
02:23:59,239 --> 02:23:57,720
send you the images if you sure that'd

3071
02:24:00,529 --> 02:23:59,249
be interesting if you've had your

3072
02:24:05,120 --> 02:24:00,539
breakfast already

3073
02:24:07,040 --> 02:24:05,130
I won't what go show the International

3074
02:24:09,859 --> 02:24:07,050
cryptozoology Museum that we have in

3075
02:24:13,010 --> 02:24:09,869
Portland Maine I get lots of cases all

3076
02:24:14,330 --> 02:24:13,020
the time so I bet ya we're gonna do this

3077
02:24:17,840 --> 02:24:14,340
break and then come back for a final

3078
02:24:24,490 --> 02:24:17,850
segment with Loren Coleman and gene and

3079
02:24:24,500 --> 02:24:28,400
[Music]

3080
02:24:35,420 --> 02:24:31,719
thank you for listening to GCS

3081
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visit GCN live.com today

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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

3098
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3099
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planet are planning to conquer the earth

3100
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3101
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classic kind attack of the rock ODEs and

3102
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3105
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owe the IRS money you can't pay our tax

3106
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that's crippling you I've defended

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people from the IRS for over 30 years

3108
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I've helped thousands and I can help you

3109
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too

3110
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I wrote the book on IRS settlement and

3111
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I'm telling you there's no such thing as

3112
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a hopeless case call 834 no tax to

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3141
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[Music]

3174
02:28:49,461 --> 02:28:47,490
hi this is Bryce Abel I'm the producer

3175
02:28:51,381 --> 02:28:49,471
of dark skies the co-author of AD after

3176
02:28:53,530 --> 02:28:51,391
disclosure and you are listening to the

3177
02:28:59,730 --> 02:28:53,540
para cast the gold standard of

3178
02:29:05,840 --> 02:29:02,740
[Music]

3179
02:29:07,280 --> 02:29:05,850
loren coleman the question i always ask

3180
02:29:09,500 --> 02:29:07,290
and i don't know if there's ever gonna

3181
02:29:11,030 --> 02:29:09,510
be an answer we ever gonna solve any of

3182
02:29:13,460 --> 02:29:11,040
this stuff bigfoot

3183
02:29:15,370 --> 02:29:13,470
Mothman whatever well one of the

3184
02:29:18,559 --> 02:29:15,380
positive things about being in

3185
02:29:21,440 --> 02:29:18,569
cryptozoology part of cryptozoology is

3186
02:29:24,849 --> 02:29:21,450
really a mission to find new species a

3187
02:29:29,300 --> 02:29:24,859
lot of cryptozoology is based on

3188
02:29:31,910 --> 02:29:29,310
investigating ethno known stories tales

3189
02:29:34,160 --> 02:29:31,920
sightings whatever so a lot of new

3190
02:29:37,130 --> 02:29:34,170
animals are being found based upon

3191
02:29:38,900 --> 02:29:37,140
native indigenous local people who say

3192
02:29:41,389 --> 02:29:38,910
that there's something there other

3193
02:29:44,750 --> 02:29:41,399
people not believing them in finding the

3194
02:29:47,599 --> 02:29:44,760
right people to go look for them and so

3195
02:29:50,870 --> 02:29:47,609
some cases are being solved I think that

3196
02:29:53,740 --> 02:29:50,880
whenever you get into the more fringe

3197
02:29:56,870 --> 02:29:53,750
elements of cryptozoology like Mothman

3198
02:29:59,690 --> 02:29:56,880
Dover demon you know the cases I've been

3199
02:30:01,550 --> 02:29:59,700
involved with on the fringe some of

3200
02:30:04,219 --> 02:30:01,560
those cases are just going to be

3201
02:30:08,769 --> 02:30:04,229
unknowns for a long time I don't feel

3202
02:30:13,580 --> 02:30:12,200
well I think that part of why I wrote

3203
02:30:17,030 --> 02:30:13,590
the book is that there's this whole

3204
02:30:19,580 --> 02:30:17,040
other area about the Mothman that is

3205
02:30:22,160 --> 02:30:19,590
being solved I think if you look at how

3206
02:30:24,500 --> 02:30:22,170
evil Mothman has been for several years

3207
02:30:27,559 --> 02:30:24,510
the whole town of Point Pleasant has

3208
02:30:31,120 --> 02:30:27,569
really turned it around crypto tourism

3209
02:30:33,740 --> 02:30:31,130
as making money and saving a little

3210
02:30:35,990 --> 02:30:33,750
riverbank community that was going down

3211
02:30:37,820 --> 02:30:36,000
the tubes they're saving them they're

3212
02:30:40,190 --> 02:30:37,830
getting more commerce in there they're

3213
02:30:42,920 --> 02:30:40,200
getting more friendly tourists in and

3214
02:30:45,860 --> 02:30:42,930
it's it's changing Mothman from an evil

3215
02:30:48,440 --> 02:30:45,870
creature into not a lot of money for

3216
02:30:50,630 --> 02:30:48,450
those people but survival yeah at least

3217
02:30:53,809 --> 02:30:50,640
let's make it fun and not too dark and

3218
02:30:56,240 --> 02:30:53,819
disturbing and exactly spooky make it a

3219
02:30:57,889 --> 02:30:56,250
celebration of some sort as one of the

3220
02:31:00,349 --> 02:30:57,899
Chamber of Commerce people down there

3221
02:31:02,210 --> 02:31:00,359
said when he was kind of challenged well

3222
02:31:04,490 --> 02:31:02,220
why do you do the Mothman they don't

3223
02:31:07,400 --> 02:31:04,500
exist in the Chamber of Commerce guy

3224
02:31:09,679 --> 02:31:07,410
says look I don't care if they exist or

3225
02:31:11,240 --> 02:31:09,689
not there's 10,000 people came to our

3226
02:31:13,760 --> 02:31:11,250
festival and that makes me

3227
02:31:17,420 --> 02:31:13,770
happy yeah I have 10,000 people came

3228
02:31:18,830 --> 02:31:17,430
they exist something does well there you

3229
02:31:21,050 --> 02:31:18,840
know it's like Roswell the closer you

3230
02:31:23,300 --> 02:31:21,060
get to Roswell about 50 miles out you

3231
02:31:26,870 --> 02:31:23,310
start seeing the alien faces you know

3232
02:31:29,390 --> 02:31:26,880
and then you get 2530 miles out there

3233
02:31:31,550 --> 02:31:29,400
everywhere and you get into Roswell even

3234
02:31:34,100 --> 02:31:31,560
the country-and-western clothing stores

3235
02:31:36,770 --> 02:31:34,110
have mannequins those aliens just up as

3236
02:31:39,230 --> 02:31:36,780
Cowboys as long as Point Pleasant

3237
02:31:41,530 --> 02:31:39,240
doesn't go where everything everywhere

3238
02:31:43,670 --> 02:31:41,540
you look it's all Mothman all the time

3239
02:31:45,680 --> 02:31:43,680
that would be a little dumb be a little

3240
02:31:47,360 --> 02:31:45,690
disconcerting I think it's bad enough

3241
02:31:49,610 --> 02:31:47,370
Roswell with all those little alien

3242
02:31:51,980 --> 02:31:49,620
faces everywhere it's basically break

3243
02:31:54,350 --> 02:31:51,990
out and rash and I can't find exactly

3244
02:31:58,390 --> 02:31:54,360
where to scratch it and the problem is

3245
02:32:01,220 --> 02:31:58,400
Chris may want to do something rash

3246
02:32:03,200 --> 02:32:01,230
well Mothman hasn't overtaken Point

3247
02:32:05,540 --> 02:32:03,210
Pleasant that much but it's okay

3248
02:32:07,340 --> 02:32:05,550
a friendly creature there now well you

3249
02:32:11,780 --> 02:32:07,350
see the thing I worry about though here

3250
02:32:15,530 --> 02:32:11,790
is if Mothman has inspired all this

3251
02:32:17,540 --> 02:32:15,540
tragedy around it especially in the

3252
02:32:20,240 --> 02:32:17,550
original event the collapse of the

3253
02:32:22,310 --> 02:32:20,250
bridge and the people who died after do

3254
02:32:25,370 --> 02:32:22,320
you think maybe they're not tempting the

3255
02:32:28,670 --> 02:32:25,380
gods there in having this event making

3256
02:32:30,440 --> 02:32:28,680
Mothman warm and fuzzy if we make Mothra

3257
02:32:34,430 --> 02:32:30,450
and warm and fuzzy do you think Mothman

3258
02:32:37,520 --> 02:32:34,440
may come back and bite those who try to

3259
02:32:40,400 --> 02:32:37,530
feed it well the one cautionary tale

3260
02:32:43,210 --> 02:32:40,410
that I have to tell about that is on my

3261
02:32:45,800 --> 02:32:43,220
Mothman death list the first suicide

3262
02:32:48,620 --> 02:32:45,810
that has occurred at the Mothman

3263
02:32:50,870 --> 02:32:48,630
festival happened last year so that's

3264
02:32:53,900 --> 02:32:50,880
something to watch the Mothman festival

3265
02:32:55,640 --> 02:32:53,910
has existed since the movie and they

3266
02:32:58,310 --> 02:32:55,650
were kind of shocked that somebody would

3267
02:33:00,500 --> 02:32:58,320
actually go to the water and just jump

3268
02:33:03,260 --> 02:33:00,510
in and they did the traditional thing

3269
02:33:05,540 --> 02:33:03,270
with suicides he took his shoes off and

3270
02:33:07,780 --> 02:33:05,550
put him calmly on the bank and then

3271
02:33:11,060 --> 02:33:07,790
jumped in of course they want to be neat

3272
02:33:13,520 --> 02:33:11,070
Chris lives in this strange place what

3273
02:33:15,320 --> 02:33:13,530
did I do now well you live in a place

3274
02:33:19,880 --> 02:33:15,330
that's being attacked by Mothman right

3275
02:33:20,870 --> 02:33:19,890
or Bigfoot or no no just all these feral

3276
02:33:28,460 --> 02:33:20,880
cats

3277
02:33:30,410 --> 02:33:28,470
we have a we have a kitty drug dealer

3278
02:33:31,639 --> 02:33:30,420
here who's got a whole yard of catnip or

3279
02:33:33,920 --> 02:33:31,649
something because there's cats

3280
02:33:36,380 --> 02:33:33,930
everywhere here you know that reminds me

3281
02:33:38,719 --> 02:33:36,390
when I used to liver that double-wide in

3282
02:33:40,899 --> 02:33:38,729
Mesa you visited the place a couple of

3283
02:33:44,050 --> 02:33:40,909
times and we were being visited

3284
02:33:48,830 --> 02:33:44,060
endlessly by families of cats and

3285
02:33:51,500 --> 02:33:48,840
Barbara Feldon once put out like a bowl

3286
02:33:54,019 --> 02:33:51,510
with food and maybe some get some cat

3287
02:33:56,269 --> 02:33:54,029
food and some water and I said you're

3288
02:33:58,370 --> 02:33:56,279
going to have those cats there

3289
02:34:01,429 --> 02:33:58,380
permanently they're not going to go away

3290
02:34:05,719 --> 02:34:01,439
which was true finally when we moved out

3291
02:34:09,349 --> 02:34:05,729
we arranged with the rescue club to have

3292
02:34:12,260 --> 02:34:09,359
those cats taken in and rescued and find

3293
02:34:16,070 --> 02:34:12,270
new owners for them so I guess we did a

3294
02:34:17,870 --> 02:34:16,080
good thing speaking of cats now that big

3295
02:34:20,269 --> 02:34:17,880
cat thing but the cat would sometimes

3296
02:34:22,370 --> 02:34:20,279
one of the cats took a liking to me it

3297
02:34:26,269 --> 02:34:22,380
would come up to me waiting for the food

3298
02:34:30,229 --> 02:34:26,279
and teddy bear our Bichon didn't seem

3299
02:34:31,849 --> 02:34:30,239
bothered by them Jane Chris I want to

3300
02:34:34,519 --> 02:34:31,859
thank you for inviting me on your

3301
02:34:36,620 --> 02:34:34,529
program well anytime it's always fun to

3302
02:34:38,450 --> 02:34:36,630
have you on Lorne you know that I love

3303
02:34:42,530 --> 02:34:38,460
having you on you're one of our favorite

3304
02:34:45,649 --> 02:34:42,540
guests well thank you well I like that

3305
02:34:47,540 --> 02:34:45,659
you were interested in my book and I

3306
02:34:49,370 --> 02:34:47,550
hope you've got your copies okay some

3307
02:34:52,820 --> 02:34:49,380
people I did and I got my ticket to the

3308
02:34:56,689 --> 02:34:52,830
museum and my sticker oh my god anyway

3309
02:34:59,420 --> 02:34:56,699
my postcards which shall all be used in

3310
02:35:02,030 --> 02:34:59,430
a protein or an appropriate manner in a

3311
02:35:04,460 --> 02:35:02,040
proper place there's no expiration date

3312
02:35:06,769 --> 02:35:04,470
come anytime you can yeah and you even

3313
02:35:08,630 --> 02:35:06,779
sign the book for me I love it yeah I

3314
02:35:09,830 --> 02:35:08,640
got my package right here the book is

3315
02:35:13,399 --> 02:35:09,840
right there in front of me

3316
02:35:15,590 --> 02:35:13,409
with all the extra stuff so now I'm

3317
02:35:18,769 --> 02:35:15,600
forced to somehow find a way to travel

3318
02:35:22,729 --> 02:35:18,779
from here to get there and see your

3319
02:35:24,979 --> 02:35:22,739
place too old right the museum's gonna

3320
02:35:27,830 --> 02:35:24,989
be there even if I'm not you know even

3321
02:35:29,990 --> 02:35:27,840
if I pass on to Mothman land or Bigfoot

3322
02:35:32,930 --> 02:35:30,000
land but I don't plan to do that for

3323
02:35:36,020 --> 02:35:32,940
another 10 15 20 years

3324
02:35:38,650 --> 02:35:36,030
good to know yeah that's uh it's been a

3325
02:35:41,390 --> 02:35:38,660
rough patch but I'm feeling better now

3326
02:35:42,890 --> 02:35:41,400
so do you have any new projects coming

3327
02:35:46,850 --> 02:35:42,900
up after this that we should know about

3328
02:35:50,000 --> 02:35:46,860
oh I have always do have new projects

3329
02:35:54,170 --> 02:35:50,010
I've I've signed a couple contracts one

3330
02:35:58,011 --> 02:35:54,180
for a general cryptozoology book another

3331
02:36:00,440 --> 02:35:58,021
book on Twilight language my interest in

3332
02:36:04,040 --> 02:36:00,450
kind of the name game and all of that

3333
02:36:06,320 --> 02:36:04,050
well actually there's a book coming out

3334
02:36:08,870 --> 02:36:06,330
on the big muddy monster in southern

3335
02:36:10,900 --> 02:36:08,880
Illinois I did the introduction to that

3336
02:36:14,511 --> 02:36:10,910
I've already done that but you know

3337
02:36:16,790 --> 02:36:14,521
other people take some time publishing

3338
02:36:19,551 --> 02:36:16,800
books and look forward to that and then

3339
02:36:21,710 --> 02:36:19,561
what I'm doing is traveling a lot these

3340
02:36:25,070 --> 02:36:21,720
days going to San Francisco I've been

3341
02:36:27,740 --> 02:36:25,080
invited to Hawaii Minnesota in Texas to

3342
02:36:29,990 --> 02:36:27,750
give talks on Bigfoot or Mothman so

3343
02:36:32,150 --> 02:36:30,000
that's been a lot of fun nice well

3344
02:36:36,591 --> 02:36:32,160
traveling keeps you young yeah it does

3345
02:36:40,370 --> 02:36:36,601
you have to fight TSA of the inspections

3346
02:36:42,890 --> 02:36:40,380
I only have one rule I never travel on

3347
02:36:45,860 --> 02:36:42,900
Southwest anymore because every time I

3348
02:36:49,580 --> 02:36:45,870
try to race anybody yet I end up next to

3349
02:36:51,490 --> 02:36:49,590
the bathroom at the back yeah you have

3350
02:36:55,850 --> 02:36:51,500
to call in 24 hours before your flight

3351
02:36:57,560 --> 02:36:55,860
exactly as soon as that 24 hours to the

3352
02:36:59,450 --> 02:36:57,570
second you got to call in then you can

3353
02:37:01,640 --> 02:36:59,460
get in one of the first groups to get

3354
02:37:04,780 --> 02:37:01,650
seated I like Southwest because I can

3355
02:37:06,950 --> 02:37:04,790
bring two suitcases and not get charged

3356
02:37:08,620 --> 02:37:06,960
Lauren if someone wants to get in touch

3357
02:37:12,530 --> 02:37:08,630
with you where do they contact you

3358
02:37:15,680 --> 02:37:12,540
probably the best bet is cryptozoology

3359
02:37:17,690 --> 02:37:15,690
Museum dot-com there's email address on

3360
02:37:20,000 --> 02:37:17,700
there there's contact information on

3361
02:37:22,370 --> 02:37:20,010
there and it tells them how to stop and

3362
02:37:25,580 --> 02:37:22,380
actually see me face to face at the

3363
02:37:27,700 --> 02:37:25,590
Museum in Portland Maine indeed I've got

3364
02:37:30,560 --> 02:37:27,710
the ticket here Chris has his ticket

3365
02:37:32,210 --> 02:37:30,570
somehow this has to be worked out you

3366
02:37:35,000 --> 02:37:32,220
can find us on Twitter if you look for

3367
02:37:39,770 --> 02:37:35,010
the power cast you can find Chris at his

3368
02:37:41,810 --> 02:37:39,780
site our strange planet dot-com you

3369
02:37:45,560 --> 02:37:41,820
could also find us on Facebook with a

3370
02:37:47,120 --> 02:37:45,570
pair of Kara cast fan clubs a group and

3371
02:37:48,860 --> 02:37:47,130
a community

3372
02:37:51,530 --> 02:37:48,870
I'm not sure what the difference is but

3373
02:37:53,990 --> 02:37:51,540
I'm sure most of you know so take your

3374
02:37:56,780 --> 02:37:54,000
choice we also have a second radio show

3375
02:37:59,480 --> 02:37:56,790
after the para cast which can be special

3376
02:38:01,100 --> 02:37:59,490
interviews extended interviews and you

3377
02:38:03,560 --> 02:38:01,110
never know what's gonna happen next

3378
02:38:06,020 --> 02:38:03,570
this week for example will feature Kurt

3379
02:38:09,710 --> 02:38:06,030
Collins talking about his blog on the

3380
02:38:12,710 --> 02:38:09,720
advanced aviation threat identification

3381
02:38:14,990 --> 02:38:12,720
program it's only available if you join

3382
02:38:18,920 --> 02:38:15,000
up with the para cast plus go-to plus

3383
02:38:21,770 --> 02:38:18,930
dr. power cast com that's PL us not the

3384
02:38:23,240 --> 02:38:21,780
para cast comm for more information we

3385
02:38:25,820 --> 02:38:23,250
also give you a version of this show

3386
02:38:28,219 --> 02:38:25,830
with better quality audio without the

3387
02:38:30,710 --> 02:38:28,229
network commercials how about that low

3388
02:38:31,070 --> 02:38:30,720
subscription price check it out do it

3389
02:38:33,980 --> 02:38:31,080
now

3390
02:38:35,840 --> 02:38:33,990
Plus that the para cast comm Loren

3391
02:38:38,600 --> 02:38:35,850
Coleman it's been a while glad to have

3392
02:38:40,370 --> 02:38:38,610
you back and Hardy Hale and healthy

3393
02:38:42,410 --> 02:38:40,380
thank you for joining us thank you ever

3394
02:38:53,520 --> 02:38:42,420
cast Thank You Jean

3395
02:38:59,950 --> 02:38:57,040
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3396
02:39:02,940 --> 02:38:59,960
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3397
02:39:06,670 --> 02:39:02,950
presentation of making the impossible